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Good point ^above^ because Satan did Not have faith in God, and No faith in Job.
Satan challenged Job (Job 2:4-5) that under physical pressure (loose physical heath - Job 2:4-5) No one would continue to serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
I think people misunderstand what the bible means when it says a person is living in the fear of God. It doesn't mean they fear God as in the basic meaning of the word it means they are living a faithful life its simple how they described it back then.You can say that today about any devout religious person that they are living in the fear of God or if they died that they lived in the fear of God.
Not fear as in fright, but 'reverential fear' of displeasing God as a loving child would Not want to displease a loving parent.
What needs to be kept in mind about the Story of Job is the cultural context and mindset back then. Assuming the story of Job really did unfold the way the bible says (and not just a newer Hebrew version of Ludlul-Bel-Nemeqi ), this takes place in Ancient Mesopotamia where death of family members was expected all the time due to vastly inferior medical practices and constant threats of conquering peoples and the Patriarchy ownership male mindset was the norm. Its apart of the reason why they had so many kids back then.
Heck, Job might have even lost several kids at birth or disease before he ended up with the ones that stayed alive since that was just the normal reality back then. So with this ancient Mesopotamian reality of life in combination with the view that his kids where apart of his ever changing property, getting double of what he had before would likely have seemed like a good return payment for his suffering. Would he have missed his first kids and lost property? Of course but it probably wouldn't have been considered nearly the blow it would be for a Job in modern day America due to the mindset back then.
Last edited by Jrhockney; 04-25-2024 at 10:37 AM..
Reason: Changed "Bible" to "Hebrew" for clarity
What needs to be kept in mind about the Story of Job is the cultural context and mindset back then. Assuming the story of Job really did unfold the way the bible says (and not just a newer Hebrew version of Ludlul-Bel-Nemeqi ), this takes place in Ancient Mesopotamia where death of family members was expected all the time due to vastly inferior medical practices and constant threats of conquering peoples and the Patriarchy ownership male mindset was the norm. Its apart of the reason why they had so many kids back then.
Heck, Job might have even lost several kids at birth or disease before he ended up with the ones that stayed alive since that was just the normal reality back then. So with this ancient Mesopotamian reality of life in combination with the view that his kids where apart of his ever changing property, getting double of what he had before would likely have seemed like a good return payment for his suffering. Would he have missed his first kids and lost property? Of course but it probably wouldn't have been considered nearly the blow it would be for a Job in modern-day America due to the mindset back then.
This insight barely scratches the surface of the differences in mindset between our primitive ancient ancestors and modern-day humans. It is probably impossible to recreate their mindset within our minds. The mindsets of the relatively recent Silent Movie audiences are inaccessible. Our reactions to their serious and dramatic movies are hardly serious or dramatic. The minds from multiple millennia ago might as well be extraterrestrial aliens.
I think people misunderstand what the bible means when it says a person is living in the fear of God. It doesn't mean they fear God as in the basic meaning of the word it means they are living a faithful life its simple how they described it back then.You can say that today about any devout religious person that they are living in the fear of God or if they died that they lived in the fear of God.
Indeed it is just an antiquated use of the word that means that one reveres, respects, and devotes oneself to god. On the other hand, ironically, many do that because they fear that if they do not, god will smite them either in the short term or eternally (and why not both?). And if that is the motivation, it's the wrong one.
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Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
It accomplished that Satan's challenge ( Job 2:4-5 ) was wrong.
Satan challenged that under adverse conditions that No one would prove faithful to God.
Both righteous-and-upright Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar because under adverse conditions both proved faithful to God.
I hear this explanation a lot, but to me that doesn't sound like God. He has no need to prove anything to the devil.
I read their exchange at the beginning of the book as God being somewhat sarcastic, knowing fully well beforehand the objective he had for Job's life. Satan was underestimating Job and God already knew he was being underestimated, but he lets him loose on Job under "false pretenses" (for lack of a better term).
So I understand that many see Job's turmoil as merely a test, but the fact that there was a limit placed on what Satan was allowed to do to him suggests that God had a more specific purpose in mind. If He were only testing this man, He could have easily let the attacks keep coming until irreparable damage had been done.
I feel this is suggested further, beginning in the 38th chapter, where God reminds Job of His authorship of the entire universe and all its infinite details. I believe his suffering wasn't just a spiritual test, but it also had an earthly purpose that would change the course of the rest of Job's life. This is what I wish we got a deeper explanation for.
I hear this explanation a lot, but to me that doesn't sound like God. He has no need to prove anything to the devil.
I read their exchange at the beginning of the book as God being somewhat sarcastic, knowing fully well beforehand the objective he had for Job's life. Satan was underestimating Job and God already knew he was being underestimated, but he lets him loose on Job under "false pretenses" (for lack of a better term).
So I understand that many see Job's turmoil as merely a test, but the fact that there was a limit placed on what Satan was allowed to do to him suggests that God had a more specific purpose in mind. If He were only testing this man, He could have easily let the attacks keep coming until irreparable damage had been done.
I feel this is suggested further, beginning in the 38th chapter, where God reminds Job of His authorship of the entire universe and all its infinite details. I believe his suffering wasn't just a spiritual test, but it also had an earthly purpose that would change the course of the rest of Job's life. This is what I wish we got a deeper explanation for.
I like how you say 'had an earthly purpose' because Job is in line for an earthly resurrection - Acts 24:15; Job 14:13-14
The devil challenged that under bad conditions No one ( angelic or earthly ) would serve God.
By letting all in Heaven and on Earth see that the devil is wrong then No one ever again could make such a claim.
- Proverbs 27:11 Be wise.... make God's heart rejoice, so that God can make a reply to the one who taunts God.
Back in Job's day God could Not point to any of us today if we would serve God under adverse conditions.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
There is a difference between experiencing fearful thoughts and dwelling in those thoughts.
Okay, but again we don't read that this fear Job allegedly had was completely resolved.
It seems like some here are doing exactly what his friends were doing by blaming him for what happened when God Himself does not even say as much. He never once says these things happened because of something Job did wrong.
As we know, the concluding message in that story is that God knows better than we do. Faith in God requires one to accept this, and yet it continues to bother me that we often are not given the specific purpose behind terrible things that happen for no apparent reason. Is it that we couldn't possibly understand or is it simply because God doesn't have to explain Himself?
If Job was already considered righteous and upright, then why did he have to lose everything? What did this accomplish?
Your right, it doesn't make sense - but that's when looking at it from an 'earthly' perspective:
Zoom way out, and it becomes obvious that Job let NOTHING come between himself and The Lord;
and in the perspective of Eternity (With the Lord) - Job lost nothing!
(Our Lord is the God of the Living, not of the dead!)
Okay, but again we don't read that this fear Job allegedly had was completely resolved.
It seems like some here are doing exactly what his friends were doing by blaming him for what happened when God Himself does not even say as much. He never once says these things happened because of something Job did wrong.
No blame. I don't think Job did anything wrong. I think he was simply a human being doing what humans are prone to do: succumb to fear from time to time in the form of worry. Could be that dwelling in a particular fear/worry opens a door to things manifesting in our lives that we'd prefer not to experience. That's not punishment from an angry God, just a reality of life, an experience that can humble us and break down our barriers to experiencing more of God's love than we previously were.
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), this takes place in Ancient Mesopotamia where death of family members was expected all the time due to vastly inferior medical practices and constant threats of conquering peoples and the Patriarchy ownership male mindset was the norm. Its apart of the reason why they had so many kids back then. 
