Baltimore Key Bridge Collapses.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Opening the shipping channel asap was priority, not removing the Dali per say.

That being said this is the safest and most efficient way to remove the section of the bridge sitting on top of the ship. Dali will be refloated within a day or two, then moved to Seagrit Marine Terminal so salvage can continue removal of the remaining ~40,000 tons of bridge sitting on the bottom of the Patapsco can continue.

Well they didn't reopen the shipping channel very quickly either. It took them a month to get anything moving, and if I understand it correctly there are still a half dozen ships trapped in the port and the shipping channel won't be fully reopen until they get the ship out of there and fully clear all the debris. So maybe getting the Dali out should have been a higher priority. I hope the contractors are not getting paid extra for delays.

[MrRational]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqu27hM56Jg

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

Well they didn't reopen the shipping channel very quickly either. It took them a month to get anything moving, and if I understand it correctly there are still a half dozen ships trapped in the port and the shipping channel won't be fully reopen until they get the ship out of there and fully clear all the debris. So maybe getting the Dali out should have been a higher priority. I hope the contractors are not getting paid extra for delays.

Let me repeat myself. Some 50,000 tons (thats 5x Eiffel Towers) of bridge collapsed into the Patapsco of which we've only removed ~6,000 tons.

How quickly do you think it was going to be opened? A few days?

The ships that were trapped in the Harbor left almost two weeks ago when they opened up the 4 temporary channels and moving the Dali first would have delayed that.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Let me repeat myself. Some 50,000 tons (thats 5x Eiffel Towers) of bridge collapsed into the Patapsco of which we've only removed ~6,000 tons.

How quickly do you think it was going to be opened? A few days?

The ships that were trapped in the Harbor left almost two weeks ago when they opened up the 4 temporary channels and moving the Dali first would have delayed that.

Do you have a link for all the ships leaving? Reports are conflicting, but the varying information I have read says 4 or 5 out of 7 or 11 left before the channel was closed again for the salvage effort. That would mean at least 2 maybe more are still trapped.

As for how quickly I think it was going to be open. Back at the very beginning multiple officials said very clearly this was going to be a 24 hour a day operation until the port was reopened. The live stream has shown that that has not been the case. This has been an 8 - 5 operation. Boats start arriving just before 8AM, and the cranes start moving. Around 5PM the work stops and there is a massive exodus. Even yesterday after the 5PM implosion, there was immediately a traffic jam of boats leaving the area for about 15 or 20 minutes. The live stream has shown absolutely nothing happening overnight except a few patrol boats moving around the area.

If the promised 24 hour a day salvage operation had taken place instead of this 8 - 5 operation, I see no reason this could not have been done in half the time. Which would mean that the port would have been fully reopened weeks ago.

[Cloudy Dayz]

The NTSB has released their preliminary report. Not any real surprises that I can see. But since I have seen some posts in this thread talking about the Bay Bridge, this part might be interesting to some.

The NTSB is working with parties to immediately assess their bridges and
determine whether pier protection needs to be improved. Specifically, the MDTA is
studying short-term and long-term options for upgrades to the existing protection
system for the eastbound and westbound spans on the Gov. William Preston Lane Jr.
Memorial Bridge (commonly known as the Bay Bridge) near Annapolis.

The NTSB is examining the pier protection improvements that have been
made on the following bridge collapses resulting from marine vessel strikes that the
NTSB has investigated: the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Tampa Bay, Florida; Queen
Elizabeth Causeway Bridge near South Padre Island, Texas; and the I-40 Bridge near
Webbers Falls, Oklahoma.

DCA24MM031_PreliminaryReport 3

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

Do you have a link for all the ships leaving? Reports are conflicting, but the varying information I have read says 4 or 5 out of 7 or 11 left before the channel was closed again for the salvage effort. That would mean at least 2 maybe more are still trapped.

As for how quickly I think it was going to be open. Back at the very beginning multiple officials said very clearly this was going to be a 24 hour a day operation until the port was reopened. The live stream has shown that that has not been the case. This has been an 8 - 5 operation. Boats start arriving just before 8AM, and the cranes start moving. Around 5PM the work stops and there is a massive exodus. Even yesterday after the 5PM implosion, there was immediately a traffic jam of boats leaving the area for about 15 or 20 minutes. The live stream has shown absolutely nothing happening overnight except a few patrol boats moving around the area.

If the promised 24 hour a day salvage operation had taken place instead of this 8 - 5 operation, I see no reason this could not have been done in half the time. Which would mean that the port would have been fully reopened weeks ago.

All 11 ships are gone now. The last one was a bulk carrier that had to be semi-offloaded as its draft exceeded the temporary 35' channel.

"24/7" means that between every facet of the salvage operation (crane lifts, diving, 3D surveying, planning, technical revaluations and reassessments, etc) there is behind the scene movement/work going on, not cranes lifting debris every 10 minutes non-stop until they break down from lack of winch lubrication.

I don't think you understand the planning, logistics, technical and safety precautions needed to do a salvage operation of this scale and complexity. This is a text book "slow is fast, fast is slow" scenario.

Source: Government contractor and former Navy that's been part of 24/7 salvage operations.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

All 11 ships are gone now. The last one was a bulk carrier that had to be semi-offloaded as its draft exceeded the temporary 35' channel.

"24/7" means that between every facet of the salvage operation (crane lifts, diving, 3D surveying, planning, technical revaluations and reassessments, etc) there is behind the scene movement/work going on, not cranes lifting debris every 10 minutes non-stop until they break down from lack of winch lubrication.

I don't think you understand the planning, logistics, technical and safety precautions needed to do a salvage operation of this scale and complexity. This is a text book "slow is fast, fast is slow" scenario.

Source: Government contractor and former Navy that's been part of 24/7 salvage operations.

I was looking for a specific link, which I have not been able to find. "Government contractor and former Navy" is pretty vague. There are three different government contractors working on the operation and who knows how many sub-contractors. Which specific contractor are are you referring to?

And I think you missed my point. It's not that cranes were not lifting debris every 10 minutes non-stop. It's that absolutely zero cranes have been lifting any debris between approximately 5PM and 8AM. And it's not like that equipment can't operate at night time. There was a contracted construction crew working on the bridge the night it collapsed. Working at night is pretty normal for crews like that, but not with the salvage crews.

It's hard for me to understand why the salvage cranes have not been working at night. As I said, I hope they are not getting paid extra for delays. I realize they have done a lot of work, but I'm still not impressed with their progress.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

I was looking for a specific link, which I have not been able to find. "Government contractor and former Navy" is pretty vague. There are three different government contractors working on the operation and who knows how many sub-contractors. Which specific contractor are are you referring to?

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...39.247/zoom:12 (shows every ship in and around the Harbor)

I don't work for any of the contractors on this job, but prime & sub contractor billing is more or less handled the same (direct billable labor). People aren't getting paid to sit on their chairs and play PS5.

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

And I think you missed my point. It's not that cranes were not lifting debris every 10 minutes non-stop. It's that absolutely zero cranes have been lifting any debris between approximately 5PM and 8AM. And it's not like that equipment can't operate at night time. There was a contracted construction crew working on the bridge the night it collapsed. Working at night is pretty normal for crews like that, but not with the salvage crews.

It's hard for me to understand why the salvage cranes have not been working at night. As I said, I hope they are not getting paid extra for delays. I realize they have done a lot of work, but I'm still not impressed with their progress.

Fixing potholes is not the same thing as rigging and lifting an Airbus A380 sized piece(s) of truss bridge in the middle of night under 50' of water (of which they've done several)

https://media.defense.gov/2024/Apr/2...T616-1186A.JPG

Idk where you are getting your information from but it's very apparent to me that when you say "I'm not impressed with their progress" you genuinely don't realize or understand the scope, complexity and logistical nuances of this salvage job.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...39.247/zoom:12 (shows every ship in and around the Harbor)

I don't work for any of the contractors on this job, but prime & sub contractor billing is more or less handled the same (direct billable labor). People aren't getting paid to sit on their chairs and play PS5.



Fixing potholes is not the same thing as rigging and lifting an Airbus A380 sized piece(s) of truss bridge in the middle of night under 50' of water (of which they've done several)

https://media.defense.gov/2024/Apr/2...T616-1186A.JPG

Idk where you are getting your information from but it's very apparent to me that when you say "I'm not impressed with their progress" you genuinely don't realize or understand the scope, complexity and logistical nuances of this salvage job.

Well then, I guess that makes two of us. You thought the Dali would be refloated within a day or two. Now here we are almost a week later and it's still sitting right where it has been for the last 2 months. So the work is going a lot slower than you thought it would too.

Supposedly they are going to move it tomorrow. We'll see how that goes.

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Opening the shipping channel asap was priority, not removing the Dali per say.

That being said this is the safest and most efficient way to remove the section of the bridge sitting on top of the ship. Dali will be refloated within a day or two, then moved to Seagrit Marine Terminal so salvage can continue removal of the remaining ~40,000 tons of bridge sitting on the bottom of the Patapsco can continue.

[Cloudy Dayz]

It looks like they are working on refloating it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b1_rucnZFs