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those are excellent, useful insights. i very much appreciate what is presented in the post above. Thank you for bringing this into the discussion. and it is very pertinent to the many complaints and upsets aired throughout this thread.
it is itself a choice, regarding what a person chooses to be upset about.
we have an immense amount of choice, and those choices largely determine what upsets a person, and how upset a person gets.
the example at the end about watching TV (or other media: news, online, radio, papers) notes it as cause and effect.
However it is also a choice the person participates in and the person is an active agent in triggering their own upset.
the approach in the above post is presented in a way that illuminates how we as individuals can take responsibility (not blame, but responsibility, big difference) for our responses and awareness and approach regarding things a person finds upsetting (for instance in the opening post, topics mentioned that upset the OP are politics, current events, religion). A person's own emotional state----and when there is a rant, or screaming into the void, or diatribe, that is the outward expression of an emotional state----belongs to the person. they own it. we own it. each person owns their emotional state. When the realization dawns that our emotional state does not randomly happen "to us" but is the byproduct of the many choices we make at every point in our daily life, that we are actively generating and scripting and producing our own emotional state, then it opens up the place where we can as the post above elegantly describes, where a person can participate and provide solutions.
it is not about changing anything "out there". it is about awareness, monitoring and making choices about how we react and respond to whatever it is that is swirling "out there" in daily life.
great post elyn, thank you
You're welcome, Tzaphkiel. I'm glad you liked it. I will say that if a person gets emotional, such as sharing their dislikes on this forum, the opportunity to take responsiblity is limited because it leans into cause and effect.
Taking responsibility is more than likely to occur in a problem and solution(s) environment. But in my experience, the events in our life are complex, and we have to allow things to flow - cause and effect - to make observations. If I tell somebody, "hey, you know, if that topic upsets you, you shouldn't talk about it," that is only one possible outcome, which leans heavily into cause and effect. In other words, "You shouldn't talk about it" is not really a solution, but a consequence by somebody who perceives themselves as more powerful than us because they believe they have regulated their emotions. If maybe I just listened for a bit, I might get down to the cause of it and be able to tailor my response and get more cooperation from the person.
For the person to take responsibility - to problem solve - they need to have multiple solutions as the article suggested.
Another example could be, "hey, read this article so you get a real worldview" as if it is the only possible way to give a "real world view". That is not a solution, but a consequence by somebody who thinks they live in the real world, which can make people upset as the article suggested.
Yes. And upon scrutiny, the views expressed in post above are opinions and ideas. They are not facts. And they are not universal. They are opinions and beliefs. And yes, upon scrutiny, the opinions expressed in post above are not consequential to others.
How can anyone (let alone a Jew) think that the beliefs of Hitler about the Jews are NOT a "fact" that was consequential???
How can anyone (let alone a Jew) think that the beliefs of Hitler about the Jews are NOT a "fact" that was consequential???
the post from LM did not describe Hitler's views and it did not describe Hitler's beliefs about the Jews.
The post from LM describes his own views, his own opinions, his own beliefs.
those are excellent, useful insights. i very much appreciate what is presented in the post above. Thank you for bringing this into the discussion. and it is very pertinent to the many complaints and upsets aired throughout this thread.
it is itself a choice, regarding what a person chooses to be upset about.
we have an immense amount of choice, and those choices largely determine what upsets a person, and how upset a person gets.
the example at the end about watching TV (or other media: news, online, radio, papers) notes it as cause and effect.
However it is also a choice the person participates in and the person is an active agent in triggering their own upset.
the approach in the above post is presented in a way that illuminates how we as individuals can take responsibility (not blame, but responsibility, big difference) for our responses and awareness and approach regarding things a person finds upsetting (for instance in the opening post, topics mentioned that upset the OP are politics, current events, religion). A person's own emotional state----and when there is a rant, or screaming into the void, or diatribe, that is the outward expression of an emotional state----belongs to the person. they own it. we own it. each person owns their emotional state. When the realization dawns that our emotional state does not randomly happen "to us" but is the byproduct of the many choices we make at every point in our daily life, that we are actively generating and scripting and producing our own emotional state, then it opens up the place where we can as the post above elegantly describes, where a person can participate and provide solutions.
it is not about changing anything "out there". it is about awareness, monitoring and making choices about how we react and respond to whatever it is that is swirling "out there" in daily life.
great post elyn, thank you
If only it was pertinent. You are taking a small world solution and pretending it is equally valid in the big world, and then blaming the victims (people in the Ukraine, world hunger, violence against women) for being upset about something they did NOT cause. I doubt very much you can choose not to be upset considering your rants, diatribes and screams into the void when people post on the internet.
How can anyone (let alone a Jew) think that the beliefs of Hitler about the Jews are NOT a "fact" that was consequential???
Thank you Mystic, for trying to shed at least a little light amidst this apparent thick fog of denial and/or misunderstanding. As if anyone of mature age doesn't know what beliefs and ideas Hitler made himself infamous for. At quite the horrendous consequence for many millions of people if not the world.
One of Tzap's favorite things is to make a big issue about what are opinions and beliefs and/or not facts or truths. Almost always I generally agree about what are opinions and beliefs, and I certainly don't deny that many of my last comments express my opinions and beliefs. Where Tzap, me and quite a few others seem to "part ways" has more to do with when we can and should distinguish what are just opinions and beliefs rather than facts and truths. Also the importance of doing the best we can along these lines if and when possible about matters of consequence.
Someone else also explained how some opinions and beliefs are well justified by the facts, reasons and logic that establishes them as generally sound. Quite different from other opinions and beliefs that are somewhat "harebrained" objectively speaking.
Tzap also points out my opinions and beliefs are not of consequence, and I am thankful for yet another good chuckle with that one! Too funny. If there is one thing I've long felt about all exchange in this forum, it's that most if not all is inconsequential. Most certainly including my "two bits" whenever I feel inclined to share them here with others.
Here's hoping a good weekend for all concerned. Thick fog or clear blue skies wherever you may be!
You're welcome, Tzaphkiel. I'm glad you liked it. I will say that if a person gets emotional, such as sharing their dislikes on this forum, the opportunity to take responsiblity is limited because it leans into cause and effect.
Taking responsibility is more than likely to occur in a problem and solution(s) environment. But in my experience, the events in our life are complex, and we have to allow things to flow - cause and effect - to make observations. If I tell somebody, "hey, you know, if that topic upsets you, you shouldn't talk about it," that is only one possible outcome, which leans heavily into cause and effect. In other words, "You shouldn't talk about it" is not really a solution, but a consequence by somebody who perceives themselves as more powerful than us because they believe they have regulated their emotions. If maybe I just listened for a bit, I might get down to the cause of it and be able to tailor my response and get more cooperation from the person.
For the person to take responsibility - to problem solve - they need to have multiple solutions as the article suggested.
Another example could be, "hey, read this article so you get a real worldview" as if it is the only possible way to give a "real world view". That is not a solution, but a consequence by somebody who thinks they live in the real world, which can make people upset as the article suggested.
A worthy read as your comments always tend to be, and one that reminds me of my late father who was quite the successful business man. I always remember him explaining to me when I was just a boy how he always told his reports never to come to him with a problem without a proposed solution. I got the message too. Applying such a rule helps to keep mere belly aching to a minimum and better promotes the possibilities for progress in the face of any challenge at hand. AKA problem solving.
A worthy read as your comments always tend to be, and one that reminds me of my late father who was quite the successful business man. I always remember him explaining to me when I was just a boy how he always told his reports never to come to him with a problem without a proposed solution. I got the message too. Applying such a rule helps to keep mere belly aching to a minimum and better promotes the possibilities for progress in the face of any challenge at hand. AKA problem solving.
Thanks, Learnme. Yes, I had a boss that did that as well. At home, though, doesn't seem to work. LOL.
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