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If you claim that it shares a religion, then how would you explain Albania and Kosovo which a majority of people are Muslim. Is then Albania and Kosovo Middle EAstern countries then?
yes, these countries are PART middle eastern (religion is not the only factor, so to say they are completely middle eastern, but still an important factor) and part not. this "Part not" is because of things that they have, and make them European, but Turkey lacks, so to say that it's partially European
As for the rest you claim, by your logic Britain was an Asian country until a century ago, as most of its territory was in India. Does it make sense? How does ruling a part of the world makes you part of this world? Were Spaniards "American"? Were Greeks "asian" for Ruling everything from Anatolia to Afghanistan for a period?
the alphabet is not a socio-cultural thing, but worth mentioned that Turks have fully and exclusively used the Arabic alphabet for the 5/6 of their history, if not more
National Geographic: the terms Near East and Middle East denote the same territories and are "generally accepted as comprising the countries of the Arabian Peninsula
Near East is just a PART of middle east, not something mutually exclusive. All near eastern countries are ALSO middle eastern, though not all middle eastern countries are near eastern as well
Most of the maps that come up under "Arabian Peninsula" exclude Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and certainly--Turkey. Some exclude Jordan, others don't. The Arabian Peninsula as a definition of the Near/Middle East is very limiting. It leaves out most of the region.
06-23-2022, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Most of the maps that come up under "Arabian Peninsula" exclude Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and certainly--Turkey. Some exclude Jordan, others don't. The Arabian Peninsula as a definition of the Near/Middle East is very limiting. It leaves out most of the region.
Nice Map! You are right. The Middle East is Morocco all the way to Egypt, then even Kazakhstan/the other Stan's, the 3 Azerbaijan's, Israel, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Pakistan right before entering Asia with India. Other than of course the 5 Persian Gulf Countries: UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman with Saudi Arabia, Yemen. Comparable to the scale mass of Europe!
Turkey feels very Arabian in exact surroundings often. Or at least in some doses. Turkish to Arabic language are with completely different letters in writing. Yet, almost a sudden easy opportunity for Turkey natives to learn, enter. Don't see that with Greece.
Nice Map! You are right. The Middle East is Morocco all the way to Egypt, then even Kazakhstan/the other Stan's, the 3 Azerbaijan's, Israel, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Pakistan right before entering Asia with India. Other than of course the 5 Persian Gulf Countries: UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman with Saudi Arabia, Yemen. Comparable to the scale mass of Europe!
Turkey feels very Arabian in exact surroundings often. Or at least in some doses. Turkish to Arabic language are with completely different letters in writing. Yet, almost a sudden easy opportunity for Turkey natives to learn, enter. Don't see that with Greece.
Turkic and Arabic are completely different language families, though there are loan words back and forth.
Morocco is "Middle East"? OK, so we're back to a cultural, not geographic, definition now? Can a country be African and also Middle Eastern? I don't think so, though Egypt seems to be up for grabs, depending on the map...
Nice Map! You are right. The Middle East is Morocco all the way to Egypt, then even Kazakhstan/the other Stan's, the 3 Azerbaijan's, Israel, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Pakistan right before entering Asia with India. Other than of course the 5 Persian Gulf Countries: UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman with Saudi Arabia, Yemen. Comparable to the scale mass of Europe!
Turkey feels very Arabian in exact surroundings often. Or at least in some doses. Turkish to Arabic language are with completely different letters in writing. Yet, almost a sudden easy opportunity for Turkey natives to learn, enter. Don't see that with Greece.
I agree with Ruth4Truth. Morocco is North African. And Egypt is North African and Near Eastern.
Have you ever been to Turkey? It feels not in the least "Arabian." Many Turks would be insulted if you considered them to be Arab, and vice versa. There are huge differences between Turkey and Arab states, regardless of some surface similarities.
06-23-2022, 11:55 AM
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I agree with Ruth4Truth. Morocco is North African. And Egypt is North African and Near Eastern.
Have you ever been to Turkey? It feels not in the least "Arabian." Many Turks would be insulted if you considered them to be Arab, and vice versa. There are huge differences between Turkey and Arab states, regardless of some surface similarities.
Visited twice. Once in September 2021, and then a 2nd trip right after UAE, Jordan, Cyprus, Azerbaijan for November to December 2021. First only in Istanbul, and then the next one in Anatolia, Kurdistan: Izmir, Ankara, Gazientep. Absolutely felt very Arabian. At least a bit occasionally to lots of endless hours. Met encountered lots of Turks that don't mind alliance with Arabic identity. Turkey feels much more closely aligned with UAE than with Italy for one example. Lots of Turkish people learn Arabic smooth. Almost have ethinic Turkish blood right from my own Romania family side Bucharest to Constanta.
Maghreb (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt) doesn't ever feel like Africa that much. And was in Morocco November to December 2017. Persian Gulf is their own native language. Don't even count Morocco as going to Africa. Qualify that one with Middle East.
Visited twice. Once in September 2021, and then a 2nd trip right after UAE, Jordan, Cyprus, Azerbaijan for November to December 2021. First only in Istanbul, and then the next one in Anatolia, Kurdistan: Izmir, Ankara, Gazientep. Absolutely felt very Arabian. At least a bit occasionally to lots of endless hours. Met encountered lots of Turks that don't mind alliance with Arabic identity. Turkey feels much more closely aligned with UAE than with Italy for one example. Lots of Turkish people learn Arabic smooth. Almost have ethinic Turkish blood right from my own Romania family side Bucharest to Constanta.
Maghreb (Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt) doesn't ever feel like Africa that much. And was in Morocco November to December 2017. Persian Gulf is their own native language. Don't even count Morocco as going to Africa. Qualify that one with Middle East.
Your experience, interactions, and opinions of Turkey are definitely different to mine. Morocco and the Maghreb aren't like sub-Saharan Africa but are Africa nonetheless.
By all means consider this wide swath of countries "Arabic," if you please. I think we can agree to disagree.
06-23-2022, 01:29 PM
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Your experience, interactions, and opinions of Turkey are definitely different to mine. Morocco and the Maghreb aren't like sub-Saharan Africa but are Africa nonetheless.
By all means consider this wide swath of countries "Arabic," if you please. I think we can agree to disagree.
Yes, of course people are well entitled to their own opinions. Good to have high variety of that, anyways. What months, year(s) did you visit Turkey? And what exact cities, regions? Did you go to Nargile Smoke Lounges?
That is a lot of Arabic, Turkic countries to choose from for the Travellers. "Middle East" could be more vast than the Hispanic Latinized Spanish Iberian Europe/Americas World. But, love to visit Spain, Mexico again after finishing line up of new countries, Brazil(One of the top 7 big countries), Argentina, Portugal, Panama, Colombia, Peru, Chile.
Don't mind a 3rd visit to Turkey. Didn't yet finish absolutely everything with that country. One of the most affordable to visit. Even compared to SE S Asia!? After Istanbul, Gazientep, Izmir, Ankara(A fan of all of them), then Antalya, Van, Erzurum, Trabzon, Samsun, Diyarbakir, Mardin, Adana, Mersin, Konya, Kayseri, Bursa, Edirne, Izmit, Gebze, Bodrum, Rize, Hakkari, Eskisehir, Iskendurum. Can visit the same city 2nd to 4th visit+. And make it all new. Istanbul up to 3 separate occasions before.
Actually did go through Adana, Bursa, Izmit, Gebze with 10 hours+ bus rides on route from Izmir to Istanbul, Ankara to Gazientep, and 17 hours bus from Gazientep to Istanbul. Fortunate the buses were easy to stay on for lots of hours.
Yes, of course people are well entitled to their own opinions. Good to have high variety of that, anyways. What months, year(s) did you visit Turkey? And what exact cities, regions? Did you go to Nargile Smoke Lounges?
1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2010s. From one end to the other. Fabulous country. Some scary episodes in eastern Turkey in the 1970s, because I was a girl who wasn't accompanied by a male guardian.
Most of the maps that come up under "Arabian Peninsula" exclude Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and certainly--Turkey. Some exclude Jordan, others don't. The Arabian Peninsula as a definition of the Near/Middle East is very limiting. It leaves out most of the region.
you can keep the first part of the definition: Middle east and near east are the same thing. If turkey is near eastern, that means it's a middle eastern country at the same time
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Even compared to SE S Asia!? After Istanbul, Gazientep, Izmir, Ankara(A fan of all of them), then Antalya, Van, Erzurum, Trabzon, Samsun, Diyarbakir, Mardin, Adana, Mersin, Konya, Kayseri, Bursa, Edirne, Izmit, Gebze, Bodrum, Rize, Hakkari, Eskisehir, Iskendurum. Can visit the same city 2nd to 4th visit+. And make it all new. Istanbul up to 3 separate occasions before. 
