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I did a review of Netflix documentary "Devil on Trial" in the TV forum, about the 1981 murder in CT where the defense was going to use demonic possession as an argument. Maybe it fits better here so I am copied it. The documentary, featuring interviews today with family members, and tapes and pictures from that time, is not really that good and not convincing, in spite of the tapes and pictures, as any evidence of the supernatural. But it deserves discussion perhaps:
The brothers and murderer (except one, which I will get to) still claim they were possessed but the tapes are just a joke. Kid screaming and cussing caught on tape, sound production puts a bit of echo at the end to make it sound even more evil. Nope, what it sounds like is simply a kid screaming and cussing. At one point calling a priest a "fat porkchop". Ohhh, good one Satan! No speaking in Latin or telling the future, nothing like that. Ed and Lorraine Warren, those famous ghost hucksters, enter the picture. They are on tape too, and in the same tapped interview at the time they say they have to see evidence of possession and ask the devil to knock on the table. Per the interview with the brothers, the entire house shook. Oh, I think, here it is, we can HEAR IT ON TAPE! Nope. The devil must have erased that part.
The only interesting part is the last 20 minutes. Older brother not interviewed up to that point says none of it was real. His mother, a very controlling ultra religious woman, in her mind thought it was and that belief was transferred to her other children. Warrens came in and said, in front of boy, that signs of possession include cussing, fighting, and spitting! Yeah, and then, you guessed it, for the next week or two boy cusses, fights, and spits...what is captured on tape. And then there was the bombshell that mother was regularly feeding sominex to her children every night (causes nightmares and hallucinations if taken too much). The best part of the documentary? Older brother said at one point his father, had 2 jobs, never believed this possession BS, and was just trying to get some sleep, came into the room when his son was under the "possession" and was cussing and fighting, slapped his son and told him to knock it off. Son suddenly stopped and cowered in the corner. Older son recalled "Apparently Devil listens to my father" in an ironic smirk.
Warrens came out bad here, even to those family members who still think they were victims of a possession. Fraudulent hucksters just after money. And the actual murder? Guy with a drinking problem (not discussed during the documentary) stabs and kills another guy who was or did have an affair with his girlfriend during a drunken spat. Nothing to see here.
I haven't seen the documentary, but I do think the Warrens were fraudulent hucksters. It was the whole Amityville Horror fraud that suddenly gave defense attorneys a new defense for murderers --- "The devil made me do it --- literally!"
And I say that as someone who does believe demonic possession is possible. Just very, very, very rare --- and nearly every case you are going to see on these "documentaries" (and I use the term loosely) were not genuine.
I haven't seen the documentary, but I do think the Warrens were fraudulent hucksters. It was the whole Amityville Horror fraud that suddenly gave defense attorneys a new defense for murderers --- "The devil made me do it --- literally!"
And I say that as someone who does believe demonic possession is possible. Just very, very, very rare --- and nearly every case you are going to see on these "documentaries" (and I use the term loosely) were not genuine.
Yeah, they are frauds. The Warrens' are all dead now of course. They had the adult grandchild on the show. He didn't add anything to it and was not involved in the case so I am not sure why they interviewed him.
The oldest skeptical son was in the driveway when the Warrens' first pulled up and told them "my family is crazy believing in the exorcism crap" (something like that). The Warren's clearly ignored that and just reinforced it and lead the family on. The main issue the other sons had, the ones that truly believed the demon was there, was regarding money. The Warrens' had someone write a book in the 80s (and then later there was the series of movies) and the family got a few thousand from it. The Warrens got close to $100,000. The mother thought she was going to get rich from the story. Its basically a repeat of the Amityville hoax in terms of how it was sold to the public.
The thing with the Warrens that led me to believe that they were total crackpots what is the fact that every single case they seemed to go into to investigate was demonic. Seriously, every single case.
None of them was uncle Chester coming back to say hello, or to point out that the oven needs repaired, or a residual haunting where this bad thing happened and it just keeps happening because the poor ghost can’t get over it, let it go, or where it’s like a videotape or whatever, nope – demonic. Mainly because then they can charge more for doing an exorcism.
By the way I loved to watch those ghost shows, and the guy they kept having to do the exorcisms was a defrocked priest. Which means he’s not technically allowed to do what he’s doing, and probably that’s why he got defrocked in the first place. It’s a money maker. That’s it.
By the way I loved to watch those ghost shows, and the guy they kept having to do the exorcisms was a defrocked priest. Which means he’s not technically allowed to do what he’s doing, and probably that’s why he got defrocked in the first place. It’s a money maker. That’s it.
Yup. Whether it is the silly shows where people run around dark basements screaming at ghosts with audio equipment or actual attempts at "documentaries," any time they interview any sort of cleric or person of faith, they always find the most far-out wingie-ding koo-koo they can find.
It would be the equivalent of a historic documentary on the pyramids, and every interview was with this guy:
Yup. Whether it is the silly shows where people run around dark basements screaming at ghosts with audio equipment or actual attempts at "documentaries," any time they interview any sort of cleric or person of faith, they always find the most far-out wingie-ding koo-koo they can find.
It would be the equivalent of a historic documentary on the pyramids, and every interview was with this guy:
There is also the accusation that Ed Warren was sexually abusing a 15 year old, as well as physically abusive to his wife Lorraine. The below mentions the "devil on trial" doc, the Amityville hoax, and the accusations:
The thing with the Warrens that led me to believe that they were total crackpots what is the fact that every single case they seemed to go into to investigate was demonic. Seriously, every single case.
None of them was uncle Chester coming back to say hello, or to point out that the oven needs repaired, or a residual haunting where this bad thing happened and it just keeps happening because the poor ghost can’t get over it, let it go, or where it’s like a videotape or whatever, nope – demonic. Mainly because then they can charge more for doing an exorcism.
By the way I loved to watch those ghost shows, and the guy they kept having to do the exorcisms was a defrocked priest. Which means he’s not technically allowed to do what he’s doing, and probably that’s why he got defrocked in the first place. It’s a money maker. That’s it.
I can understand your feelings. They are drawn to demonic cases, and the ones that you will hear about will be demonic.
The Warrens do NOT charge. Ever. However, they made money from demonic cases that attracted them to do investigations. From cases that were found to be demonic, and no; not just Uncle Chester coming back to say "hello".
Since I have had a personal interaction with Lorraine Warren in 1988, I can tell you that they could have charged me to drive from Connecticut to the North Shore of Long Island to check out a paranormal problem that my 1st hubby and I were having some scary phenomena which they diagnosed as most likely NOT demonic. They also gave me several books to read, (no, not their own) some solutions for the problems, as well as causes for the same.
She spoke to me for oh...over two hours. It was a learning experience. She was generous with her time, interest, and prayers. I was really shocked. I also learned so much from her. She was gentle and kind. Very genuine and funny.
I asked her how much it would be for her to check out the house and she responded "Oh Ed and I don't charge, dear, if this persists, just call us again we'll come down. I think the problem is what I spoke about and as soon as you do these two things, your problems should subside. Feel free to call us any time!"
As far as using defrocked Catholic priests, I really do not care and that does not concern me.
I am a Protestant and there are many different Protestant churches that split off over theological differences. They are still Christian, but no longer affiliated with the churches that they left.
For example Luther was "defrocked" by the Catholic Church. John Calvin, father of the Reformed Movements such as Presbyterian, Reformed Church in America, Dutch Reformed etc. was also "defrocked" by the Catholic Church. John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church, was "defrocked" by The Church of England.
They are all still valid Christians. Just not Roman Catholics.
Since changes in the 1960s, some Roman Catholics have decided that the changes are too extreme for them. There are Catholic Churches that are not under the "See of Rome". Some still seem to have an affiliation with the Pope.
This only makes them "invalid" to the Roman Catholic church.
The Warrens, like many other Roman Catholics, missed the formality of the old Roman Catholic Church. As I understand it, the role of the devil, exorcisms are example of things that did not jive with modern thought. Similarly, Pentecostals felt that the Protestant church downplayed the devil and demons.
I am much more theologically progressive than the Warrens and people of their ilk. While I am a Protestant Christian, I have over the past 40 years learned about many other philosophies and spiritual paths. I have taken those paths and will continue to do that.
The Warrens were not frauds, and they were not "only in it for the money". Yes. Some of their more interesting cases were turned into books and later, films.
They lived in a very modest, ranch style house in a middle-class town in Connecticut when they easily could have afforded to live in Greenwich or Cos Cob. They drove a modest American made car.
If you want a spiritual shyster, take a look at Joel Osteen.
In the documentary, the brothers indeed mentions that the Warren's arrived in a quite unassuming older American vehicle. They also mention that the Warrens were very comforting, particularly Lorraine. She knew how to talk to people to disarm them and make them relaxed.
I would say however that every successful con-man has that particular attribute.
How they spent there money and lived is not really relevant however. Maybe they just got off on the fame, maybe they made bad investments, maybe they were busy paying off the numerous lawsuits they were engaged in.
I haven't seen the documentary, but I do think the Warrens were fraudulent hucksters. It was the whole Amityville Horror fraud that suddenly gave defense attorneys a new defense for murderers --- "The devil made me do it --- literally!"
And I say that as someone who does believe demonic possession is possible. Just very, very, very rare --- and nearly every case you are going to see on these "documentaries" (and I use the term loosely) were not genuine.
They were fraudulent hucksters, but they sure were charismatic! Even as a skeptic/nonbeliever in the paranormal, I have very fond memories of them making the talk-show circuit.
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Solly says — Be nice!
