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I think getting the truckers to use 481 is actually one of the goals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by proulxfamily
Subways in major cities aren't above ground... and yet, those shops thrive.
Thats because those shop's customers are walking past the shop (at 6mph or whatever human speed supposedly is) when they go to and from the subway stop. They're at ground level and moving slowly when they aren't on the subway, so your footfalls dramatically increase when you have a high proportion of public transit users. Public transit is great for cities, and car use has the unfortunate side effect of leaving tight urban spaces abandoned. (don't get me wrong, I own a car, but would gladly use it less give the chance).
An underground tunnel would be ideal, but I think its probably cost-prohibitive.
Attached some images for historical perspective. There is a map of Syracuse pre-highway in 1923. The solid pink is buildings. You can see the curved rail line that became I-690 I couldn't find my post-1970 version but its similar to whats there today. You can see the difference in urban continuity and the difference in density compared to now.
I also went through my records and found some clippings of I-81 construction. Doesn't have any bearing on the discussion other than you may enjoy it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239493@N00/4823796453/ (broken link)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239493@N00/4823796447/ (broken link)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239493@N00/4823796449/ (broken link)
I just don't think that a street level boulevard would help at all. No one is going to want to go downtown to get tangled up in 6-8 lanes of traffic.
Unless they're going underground, I think they shouldn't do it at all... I hate the waste of "let's do this and see if it helps." THAT'S OUR MONEY. Unless they have a damn good plan, better than hoping x works out, leave it all be. If they want to be a big city, start exploring the underground options, build a small metro system, run 81 underground and ACT like a big city. Don't go moving around highways, based on nothing more than hope, and waste all the funding that could go toward something that is ACTUALLY productive, you know?
Look at me - sheesh - I'm all feisty about it now. lol
I do have to point out that in every single instance where they removed one of these viaducts, it had a positive impact. I-81 was built with the idea that it would allow people from further away work in downtown syracuse because they could commute by car. The end result was that business moved out to the suburbs which is more car friendly.
It is our money, but a surface road is also the cheapest solution. A subway etc is a multi-billion dollar project that this area can't afford.
I visited Chicago a few weeks ago and wow- I would absolutely never get a second vehicle, if we lived there. It was easy to use and navigate, clean and efficient. I agree that a subway would be unneccessary in Syracuse, right now, but I really hope we can grow to be a major city one day! As it is, you can walk across all of downtown for what it takes to GET to the line you want in Chicago... and that's not a bad thing. We're just so lazy. Truly. I have friends who will park at Wise Guys for a comedy show, then get in their cars and park at Armory Square - three whole blocks down - so they don't have walk "ALL THAT WAY back." ::headdesk::
I don’t know if putting 81 where it is is the root of the problem or not but in my opinion no matter what changes they make, it had better be aesthetically pleasing!
We have this discussion all the time on this forum about how people don’t even want to have newcomers drive through the south side because of how ugly it is. The current 81 is the same way, ugly!
When I was living in DC they made a point of making Overpasses look historic with lampposts and stone. The architecture of the overpasses was timeless and they would be seen as pleasing to the eye for a long time to come. If we keep 81 as an overpass why can’t we do something like that and then make the roads below also aesthetically pleasing with brick, trees, nice signs, ect? If they make it a boulevard then they should also make it aesthetically pleasing.
One of the things people really like about Syracuse is its old beautiful architecture. Shouldn’t we invest the same kind of art and design into something people will use every day such as its roads or overpasses?
In particular I think using light in a beautiful way, such as lampposts, is important because of how dark Syracuse can get in the winter. Some other ideas would be using stone or brick, ornate railings, water features, using art mosaics, trees, hanging vines, Ornate Street signs and direction signs.
If I could ask the committee to do one thing it would be to please, please make it timelessly beautiful.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Waterfront Toronto Unveils Underpass Park Waterfront Toronto – Newsroom (http://news.waterfrontoronto.ca/2010/03/waterfront-toronto-unveils-underpass-park/ - broken link) - The underpass area
There are no plans to remove Rte 690 - the only discussion has been about the possibility of removing a short elevated section of Rte 81 where it passes through the city. The vast majority of commuters to downtown Syracuse come into the city on 81 South, 690 East, and 690 West - they would not be affected.
Rte 481 already provides a bypass and it is underutilized. I disagree with the people who insist the the introduction of Rte 81 somehow hastened the decline of downtown Syracuse, and I'm a bit skeptical about the prospect that removal of the highway would cause sudden economic rejuvenation of the areas under and adjacent to the existing roadway.
The arguments on both sides of the issue often skirt an important point: what is the overall cost of the possible options? Personally, I think diverting all truck traffic to Rte 481 and making 81's current elevated roadway into a below grade open road arterial (i.e. not a tunnel but instead a sunken road with a few on and off ramps and the existing cross streets going over it on bridges for passenger vehicles only - would be a good compromise.
That sounds like a lovely idea, phaelon! I like the idea of pedestrians not having to wait at multiple corners to cross the main drag... and it increases the architecture. Perhaps the pedestrian bridge could be something that SU students could design and give themselves to the spirit of the city- build ties there through appreciation of what they can do. We need PRIDE for this beautiful area we live in!
That sounds like a lovely idea, phaelon! I like the idea of pedestrians not having to wait at multiple corners to cross the main drag... and it increases the architecture. Perhaps the pedestrian bridge could be something that SU students could design and give themselves to the spirit of the city- build ties there through appreciation of what they can do. We need PRIDE for this beautiful area we live in!
I thought about that too, but I believe it would have to be compliant with the Disabilities Act. So, you might have to have an elevator for the pedestrian bridges. Possibly a skyway, like you see at airports could work too.
I thought about that too, but I believe it would have to be compliant with the Disabilities Act. So, you might have to have an elevator for the pedestrian bridges. Possibly a skyway, like you see at airports could work too.
A sloping arch walkway wouldn't comply with the AWDA?
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