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Israel is very small country with small population. they don't have oil to sell and their market is very small. though technologically advance, America can readily produce the tech they have.
I submit the amount of aid given on Israel defies logic in relation to its value whether economic or military.
Israel punches far above its weight the same way that in the Diaspora Jewish people are high achievers.
Arguably Poland et. al. being in NATO diminishes Turkey's importance. The apparently permanent status of Erdogen as ruler, at least until he dies, shows just how unreliable Turkey is. The guy is either evil or crazy. Better to have democracies such as Israel or quasi-democracies such as Poland and Hungary as allies and NATO members than a renegade republic like Turkey.
that's not the way strategists think. they think of geography and if you know geography, you know why Turkey is very important
remove that backing and they will try to compromise with the Arabs
If you read the story of Israel's formation of its Air Force in The Pledge by Leonard Slater you would likely feel differently. The U.S. actively opposed arming what was to become Israel in the months between the U.N. resolution proposing a Jewish and Arab state in November 1947 and the date that the British announced in advance they were withdrawing, May 15, 1948. The story is truly amazing. The U..S. was in no way a military backer.
In 1956, the U.S. pulled the plug on the joint British-French-Israeli operation to hold the Suez Canal in Western hands. in 1967 the U.S. was neutral, but started to lean towards Israel. Only from the 1973 Yom Kippur War on was the U.S. an ally. Even then the U.S. has wavered.
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Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas
that's not the way strategists think. they think of geography and if you know geography, you know why Turkey is very important
Strategists also consider how reliable and stable the ally is. For example North Korea and China would have been great allies geographically against the Soviet Union. Were either available? Turkey is not quite as bad but it's pretty bad.
If you read the story of Israel's formation of its Air Force in The Pledge by Leonard Slater you would likely feel differently. The U.S. actively opposed arming what was to become Israel in the months between the U.N. resolution proposing a Jewish and Arab state in November 1947 and the date that the British announced in advance they were withdrawing, May 15, 1948. The story is truly amazing. The U..S. was in no way a military backer.
In 1956, the U.S. pulled the plug on the joint British-French-Israeli operation to hold the Suez Canal in Western hands. in 1967 the U.S. was neutral, but started to lean towards Israel. Only from the 1973 Yom Kippur War on was the U.S. an ally. Even then the U.S. has wavered.Strategists also consider how reliable and stable the ally is. For example North Korea and China would have been great allies geographically against the Soviet Union. Were either available? Turkey is not quite as bad but it's pretty bad.
I read all about those. but remember, during those times, the Arabs didn't have a very formidable weapon yet (OIL). when did they start nationalizing their oil industry?
Now if they are not backstopped by the USA, do you think 8M people will win against a wealthy 200M Arabs? if Russia can blackmail the EU with their gas, how much more the Arabs? only the gas guzzling Americans can sway them
strategy is about long term plans. Erdogan is just a blip. he will be gone too but the strategic position of Turkey will always be there and no superpower will ignore that
I read all about those. but remember, during those times, the Arabs didn't have a very formidable weapon yet (OIL). when did they start nationalizing their oil industry?
Actually oil was the reason FDR promised the Arabs not to sponsor a Jewish state. Oil was alive and well as a consideration before 1947.
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Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas
Now if they are not backstopped by the USA, do you think 8M people will win against a wealthy 200M Arabs?
Much better organization and the advantage always held by a defender. The Arab rulers, and not the people, are wealthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas
if Russia can blackmail the EU with their gas, how much more the Arabs? only the gas guzzling Americans can sway them
That idea almost worked during the 1973-4 embargo because at that time world petroleum supplies and refining capacity were stretched thin. Now excess capacity prevents that use of the oil weapon. In the case of the EU the issue is the unwillingness of the Europeans to allow fracking, and the fact that the Russians are otherwise the only logical suppliers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas
strategy is about long term plans. Erdogan is just a blip. he will be gone too but the strategic position of Turkey will always be there and no superpower will ignore that
Even before Erdogen Turkey was always chaotic and unstable. It's a weak reed to lean on.
remove that backing and they will try to compromise with the Arabs
You live in a fantasy land. Israel has been trying to compromise. It's the arabs who refuse to do so and seek the extermination of Israel and its citizens.
You live in a fantasy land. Israel has been trying to compromise. It's the arabs who refuse to do so and seek the extermination of Israel and its citizens.
I am not into the politics of Arab-Israeli conflict. I just know that American involvement with it cost a lot of money. how much Egypt gets just so to keep its deal with Israel? on top of what Israel gets from America? I submit its just cheaper to bring those 8M Israelis to the USA. America gets its talents and business plus we get cheaper oil from the Arabs and we don't have to bribe them into accepting American hegemony in the region.
I am not into the politics of Arab-Israeli conflict. I just know that American involvement with it cost a lot of money. how much Egypt gets just so to keep its deal with Israel? on top of what Israel gets from America? I submit its just cheaper to bring those 8M Israelis to the USA. America gets its talents and business plus we get cheaper oil from the Arabs and we don't have to bribe them into accepting American hegemony in the region.
Wait, You think most of the oil the US comes from the Arabs? Try again. The primary country the US gets oil from is Canada at 38%. The first Arab country is 11%.
Wait, You think most of the oil the US comes from the Arabs? Try again. The primary country the US gets oil from is Canada at 38%. The first Arab country is 11%.
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