Greater Cleveland mass transit (Akron, Mentor: lofts, community college, gated)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I don't find entering/exiting Tower City to be all that time-consuming -- at most 1 or 2 mins... certainly not 5. Most modern subway systems, like the DC Metro, Atlanta's MARTA, and SF's BART take just as long to exit TC, if not longer, as you must come up a short escalator, go through turnstiles, curl through a large mezzanine area of ticket vending machines then catch another escalator to the streets; and these escalators are often quite tall/long -- longer than TC's escalator and, remember, at Tower City, you only ride up/down once; you are only one 2 levels - track level and then the street. Some of DC's downtown stations are among the deepest in the world, like Dupont Circle where, if you're afraid of heights (as I am) it sometimes can be rather intimidating.

Plus, to me, the sheer grandeur of the old Union Station/Terminal Tower complex is awe-inspiring, esp the entrance portico off Public Square. It ranks among THE most beautiful mass rapid transit entrances in the nation (DC's Union Station (which you can bypass) and NYC's Grand Central Terminal, are others).

One other note: Tower City had (and still has, if it's now open (it was closed during COVID) a very direct entrance onto Prospect Ave; the 'back door' to the Rapid I often would use rather than curling around to the front of the building. Coming from venues along East or West Prospect and Huron Road (including the Warehouse District), it is more direct to use the Prospect entrances (on both sides of the street). These entrances are directly over the Rapid tracks -- the only 'downside' is that you either have to catch 2 escalators, walk up or ride the elevator -- the last being the slowest, but none being overly slow.

Next time I rapid in, I'm going to time how long it takes me after stepping off the train and onto Public Square and report back!

[TheProf]

As for the recent Red Line subway proposal, I'm all for it and wish the lone guy pushing it gets more publicity -- he's been kicking this around for at least a couple years. It would solve the long-standing problem of connecting the eastern end of downtown, esp Playhouse Square, directly on the Rapid. It would also connect the Tri-C - St. Vincent Quadrangle as well and would, in my opinion, be a better approach than the ill-fated subway loop of the 1950s as you can have trains move through town quicker and continue east or west, rather than having to loop back to their point of destination, as the 50s plan called for.

As for having Red Line trains hooking unnaturally north into the subway and slowing down East-West travel: such is the burden of a medium-sized major metro area like Cleveland. Utilizing ready-made paths such as railroad rights-of-way or freeway medians is the only way to lower costs and make true rapid transit justifiable for cities like Cleveland. We all know the most sensible rapid transit corridor would be straight up (and under) Euclid to University Circle and beyond to the east, then traveling west through Public Square then under Superior to Detroit Ave utilizing, of course, the famous Detroit-Superior (Vet's Memorial) subway deck, which was designed and built, in 1917, with the long-term plan of such a crosstown subway/elevated line. (and, btw, a branch LRT from Tower City curling over to the bridge and out to Detroit Ave rising to the surface and heading westbound is still viable -- these trains could easily utilize the old, extant Shaker Rapid Tower City terminal).

But due to the crazy American time-consuming expense of subway building, extensive subways are only reserved for the biggest most densely populated US cities such as NYC, SF, DC, and LA. Somehow little Buffalo, smaller than Cleveland, pulled off an up-the-gut subway following Main Street (but even then, weirdly, trains emerge from the tunnel entering downtown to ride street-level amongst auto/pedestrian traffic.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Next time I rapid in, I'm going to time how long it takes me after stepping off the train and onto Public Square and report back!

I do it frequently -- going from the Red Line to the Health Line. I'd say 2-3 minutes.

[ferraris]

The proposal noted that the existing red-line path would be maintained, so there could potentially be "express" trains bypassing the new stops.

I'm not sure that makes sense with 15-minute frequencies and Cleveland's ridership, but it is something other cities do. It would make more sense than the unnecessary I-271 Express lanes at least!

[TheProf]

As excited as I am to see Sherwin-Williams' giant new 36-story high rise HQ and pavilion gobble up those horrible surface parking lot craters at Public Square, my enthusiasm is curbed by my surprise and disappointment that no consideration was made for connecting the massive complex with a temp-controlled walkway to the nearby RTA rail Rapid Transit hub. Strike that; how could I be 'surprised' in such a car-oriented/transit-hating city as Cleveland?

Once the S-W complex is complete, rail transit commuters will have to schlep (often with computer/briefcases/bags) across super-wide Superior Ave to access their jobs/catch trains home, in the reverse. That should be fun during a downpour or one of those blustery cold Cleveland winter days replete with heavy snows, super wind gusts, and slush everywhere. Nice way to promote transit usage.

Yeah, I know. I can hear the usual Cleveland excuses: 1. a tunnel would be too expensive and, 2. an overhead walkway would be too ugly so as to damage the visage of our pristine city... as though this were Paris or Venice or the like.

The fact that nowhere was such a connection even mentioned by the media, CLE leadership or, of course, not S-W, is really discouraging.

[WRnative]

https://www.clevescene.com/news/rta-...eason-39581508

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TheProf

As excited as I am to see Sherwin-Williams' giant new 36-story high rise HQ and pavilion gobble up those horrible surface parking lot craters at Public Square, my enthusiasm is curbed by my surprise and disappointment that no consideration was made for connecting the massive complex with a temp-controlled walkway to the nearby RTA rail Rapid Transit hub. Strike that; how could I be 'surprised' in such a car-oriented/transit-hating city as Cleveland?

Once the S-W complex is complete, rail transit commuters will have to schlep (often with computer/briefcases/bags) across super-wide Superior Ave to access their jobs/catch trains home, in the reverse. That should be fun during a downpour or one of those blustery cold Cleveland winter days replete with heavy snows, super wind gusts, and slush everywhere. Nice way to promote transit usage.

Yeah, I know. I can hear the usual Cleveland excuses: 1. a tunnel would be too expensive and, 2. an overhead walkway would be too ugly so as to damage the visage of our pristine city... as though this were Paris or Venice or the like.

The fact that nowhere was such a connection even mentioned by the media, CLE leadership or, of course, not S-W, is really discouraging.

Are there other cities that have done similar things for downtown corporate HQs?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Are there other cities that have done similar things for downtown corporate HQs?

Many places with transit tie in major office complexes with underground connections to rail stations, though I can't say all that are corporate HQs. One that is ... make that 2, is Philadelphia, where any new office building anywhere near one of the downtown commuter rail stations is connected... Comcast build a mega-tall HQ in the early 2000s, then built a sister tower, Comcast 2, that's even taller (60 stories, 1,121 feet tall; 1.5M square feet - floor space).

... and oh yeah, there's another town you may be familiar with: Cleveland, which used to connect to the Terminal Tower/Tower City rapid station. Obviously, the massive original complex was, Offbut with Tower City you have the Skylight office building along with the 23-story, 430-foot Stokes Federal Courthouse. The several-block TC office/hotel/casino complex (plus Rocket Mortgage FH) is one of the largest, finest such complexes in the nation.

But all this came to a close since the early 2000s with RTA GM Joe Calabrese who slowly wrecked transit in general, but the rail system, in particular. Calabrese, one of the worst things to hit Cleveland transit since Albert S. Porter, help make RTA unpopular with the public with broken-down old trains (which he knew needed to be replaced but didn't lift a finger to do so), dirty oft crime-ridden stations and near zero security. Joe C slashed service (including the very popular small-bus Community Circulators connecting Rapid stations with neighborhoods, rejected all rail expansion proposals, thumbed his nose at commuter rail, etc., even dumped such popular, well-patronized rail services such as all-night New Year's Eve Rapid services and extended rail service to 2p on summer weekend nights, which was esp helpful in the Flats along the Waterfront Line (WL) -- for really no reason. And yes, the Flats did decline in the early 2000s but has been reawakened in recent years, but Calabrese took the occasion to slash and destroy Waterfront Line service and turned it into the 'Ghost Train' joke it is today -- oh yeah, the WL isn't running at all due to shoddy construction and poor system structural oversight.

So given the new normal of local indifference to transit these days, it's not surprising Sherwin-Williams didn't lift a finger to make an indoor connection to the Tower City Rapid -- even though its new headquarters will be directly across the street from our rail hub. And what's even sadder is that no public official or media outlet said a word... But of course, everybody is worried about building a big enough parking garage. In fact, some downtown workers are mad at losing their conveninent surface parking lot to the S-W tower ... right in the living room/center of the entire metropolitan area ...

OIC (only in Cleveland).

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

https://www.clevescene.com/news/rta-...eason-39581508

Yeah, bummer. Well, at least I'm glad of some news about the WL. I really thought RTA was letting the service die with no comment, from RTA or the media. Let's hope RTA at least stays on schedule and gets the WL bridge built correctly, solidly and safely.

[216facts]

Good read about Cleveland's TOD Initiative. This is from NEOtrans.
https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/06/gr...tive-on-track/

Lots to be proud of here, and plenty yet to do to make Cleveland a "15 minute city"