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::Sigh:: The reality is that it is impossible to determine whether "complexity" arises (or "emerges") from simple inputs or if "complexity) is endemic and the simple inputs are misunderstood manifestations of the overarching (complexity). This is especially cogent since we have no clue how what we OBSERVE as "emergence" manifests. We are very clever at instantiating processes in machines using OUR consciousness that can mimic the output of our consciousness but that in no way means we have somehow created consciousness, especially if consciousness is endemic (as I believe it is).
That ignorance is your (off topic) problem, but if you go to the science forum and ask, we will be willing to explain.
Last edited by Harry Diogenes; 01-25-2024 at 10:30 AM..
That is your (off topic) problem, but if you go to the science forum and ask, we will be willing to explain.
I answer specific posts to clarify disagreements even if they are off-topic. That is how discussions work. The off-topic angst of this forum is simply misused for other purposes, IMO. (I am amused when BS or MS-level knowledge declares ignorance in a Ph.D.)
Atheist: I don't believe there's a god.
Agnostic: I don't know if there's a god.
I don't see the hubris.
Well, I guess one could make a case for some hubris regarding someone who is so sure. But I would think 'hubris' has a tone to it that makes it not the right term, any more than hubris would be the appropriate term for someone who has faith in god. Then there are the extreme cases on both sides.
But since Mystic is so sure about his 'visions' (or whatever)...does that mean he demonstrates hubris?
Atheist: I don't believe there's a god.
Agnostic: I don't know if there's a god.
I don't see the hubris.
Atheist: I don't believe there are any gods (plural).
Agnostic: I don't know if there are any gods (plural).
And as all the claims about the many different alleged gods can not be true (which is knowledge), agnostics must be either lazy, indifferent or not very good at rational thinking.
Atheist: I don't believe there are any gods (plural).
Agnostic: I don't know if there are any gods (plural).
And as all the claims about the many different alleged gods can not be true (which is knowledge), agnostics must be either lazy, indifferent or not very good at rational thinking.
The bold reveals your constant equating of human beliefs, theories, opinions, and interpretations as "empirical." They are NOT! They can disagree all over the place without impacting reality or leading to any conclusions about it. That is YOUR uncritical and irrational thinking. People disagree mightily about a lot of things and that does not alter whatever the reality might be or whether or not one or the other might be true.
Well, I guess one could make a case for some hubris regarding someone who is so sure. But I would think 'hubris' has a tone to it that makes it not the right term, any more than hubris would be the appropriate term for someone who has faith in god. Then there are the extreme cases on both sides.
Agreed. I don’t believe in a higher power, but all other things being equal, I don’t think this makes me better or more enlightened than those who do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
But since Mystic is so sure about his 'visions' (or whatever)...does that mean he demonstrates hubris?
Careful now, that may be the C-D R&S subforum equivalent of dividing by zero.
Careful now, that may be the C-D R&S subforum equivalent of dividing by zero.
Divide by zero error
Kernel panic
Dumping core ... system has shut down
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Are agnostics and atheists different?
