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I loved Christmas as a kid but it was ALWAYS about the presents. I mean, I was a KID.
I converted to Catholicism at the age of 19 simply because I longed for SOMETHING that would ground me, that would give me hope, that would give me some sort of stability or safety that I'd never had as a kid. But of course, Catholicism couldn't do those things UNLESS I completely shut off my brain to all its contradictions. (I mean, even as a child I wondered how people could reconcile the fact of so many different religions in the world, most of them claiming to be the ULTIMATE TRUTH? I mean, really? That makes no sense at all in ANY other context, so how on EARTH can people make any sense of it at all if they have, you know, working brains?!)
Now, in my early 60s, I can still enjoy Christmas as a non-religious holiday, but I have to admit, I sometimes do long for the days when I just MADE MYSELF BELIEVE even though it made no sense. I mean, "Oh Holy Night" is a beautiful, beautiful song, and I loved it for a long time, and I still do, but I loved it more -- or maybe just differently -- when it actually MEANT something to me, as in during my Catholic days.
Does that make sense to anyone? That we can maybe be a tiny, tiny bit nostalgic for the days when we just MADE OURSELVES BELIEVE because it was, well, maybe comforting in some ways?
Of course, intellectually it makes no sense at all to have those kinds of religious beliefs. But I DO understand their appeal.
Maybe it's just because tonight I am missing my mom, who died 4-1/2 years ago (7/3/19), and I wish I could see her again someday ... but I know that makes, well, no sense at all. She's dead, and I know that.
Sometimes I wish I had been born stupid ... but that only lasts for a minute, because I really DO enjoy my brain 99.99999% of the time.
And happy holidays to everyone, however you celebrate them!
In a troubled and turbulent world... indeed, religion offers certainty, and certainty is a comfort.
When we recognize that there's no God / no Santa / our fate is in our own hands... it's liberating, but perhaps scary as well.
I like to think I celebrate the pagan holiday with a pagan Xmas tree.
It really doesn't bother me that Christmas is so much about consumerism. That's on other people, not on me. If I want to buy a few gifts for people, that's fine. If some people choose to act like birdbrains running around trying to get their kids the latest in electronics and acting like morons in doing so, that just reflects on them and doesn't bother me at all.
When I was a kid, I hated the holidays. My mom complained and complained about having to make up a special dinner of turkey or ham. My dad complained and complained about having to put up the damn tree. I never could understand why they acted like this and why they just didn't not do it. What the hell was so special about a stupid holiday that made people do something they just hated doing?
Later on, when I finally had my own place and my brother would come up to visit once in while, Christmas was the one day I got off and it was fun (once I quit going over to coworkers' houses on holidays because they invited me). I put up my own little tree, got the dog and the cat (and sometimes my brother) some gifts and had a good time all on my own.
Well, the dog and that cat are long gone now and I don't have room for a tree and I have all the days off now, so I haven't celebrated Christmas in a long, long time. But things are looking up. I may finally be living in a place I don't have to move from every other year and I have a cat again, so a tree and a small celebration next year doesn't seem out of the question.
This year, though, I'm cancelling Christmas. Not even any cards. I'm just calling people instead. There's too much going on right now. But next year I can see myself settled with a tiny Xmas tree and all my ornaments on it and the Christmas cards hanging up and a few gifts for the cat...I think it'll be much better next year.
Now, does anyone have any suggestions for cat gifts for a cat that doesn't like catnip?
What the hell was so special about a stupid holiday that made people do something they just hated doing?
It’s the people in your life that make the time special, not the holiday itself. Relative to Thanksgiving, how many are actually celebrating (or even thinking about) the harvest feast shared by pilgrims and the Wampanoag people?
Point being, the less happy folks are, the more likely they are to see the time of year as a chore or ‘stupid’ and/or not celebrate at all. In other words, from my perspective, it’s a matter of psychological health (and strong social connections/relationships) as opposed to religion - even for many who believe in a god, from what I’ve seen/experienced. Hence the reason many atheists enjoy celebrating it as well; I always have, and I don’t think twice about it.
There are only two Christmas songs I genuinely like: 'I Believe in Father Christmas' by Greg Lake of Emerson, Lake, and Palmer; and 'A Christmas Song' by Jethro Tull. Haven't heard the latter yet this year; the former is more well-known and less obviously cynical, though it's pretty wistful and something of a downer in its own right
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 12-18-2023 at 10:05 AM..
My father's side of the family held its/our annual Christmas Eve celebration a week early this year, on account of the Christmastime travel plans of my aunt and her boyfriend. We savored our version of the traditional Polish 'wigilia' Christmas Eve meal, with pierogis and mushroom soup among other things, then enjoyed the Buffalo Bills' demolition of the Cowboys (the Bills' stadium is maybe half a mile from my aunt's house, so we could hear post-touchdown celebratory sound effects from her living room). Not a single gift was exchanged, and no political references were made, a good thing given that my parents, brother and I are varying degrees of left-wing, while my aunt's boyfriend has dragged her rightward over the past several years. My cousin and I joked about the ups and downs of our NFL betting, and plans were made for the family to reconvene for a card game in February or March. Pretty optimal family gathering from my perspective
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 12-18-2023 at 10:18 AM..
My father's side of the family held its/our annual Christmas Eve celebration a week early this year, on account of the Christmastime travel plans of my aunt and her boyfriend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz
Not a single gift was exchanged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz
Pretty optimal family gathering from my perspective
I’m curious as to what gifts represent to you; you appear proud/pleased, as if there is negativity associated with giving one a Christmas gift. That said, at least all of you (and the Grinch ;-) are on the same page.
Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. It's not a REAL longing to go back to those "believing" days ... more of an intellectual understanding of HOW COMFORTING those beliefs can be (and were, for a tiny bit of time many decades ago when I desperately needed SOMETHING to believe in and hold onto).
I miss my mom, even though we had a very complicated relationship and I had not seen her in person for close to 20 years when she died. I miss friends who have died (including a woman who died way back in 1985, and I still miss her and think about her a lot even though it's been almost 40 years now). I miss my beloved kitties, who were a GIGANTIC part of my life; I have lost way too many of them in the past couple of years.
I mean, who WOULDN'T want to believe that they will somehow mystically, magically reappear in my life -- well, not my life, but at my DEATH? I KNOW that's a comforting thought for millions if not billions of people.
But of course, and as I wrote many times in my earlier post, INTELLECTUALLY, that makes no sense, and I know that, and I love that I've always been "the smart one," and I love my brain, and of course I would not want to go back to not using it. In fact, one of the things that puzzles me the most about religion is how people who otherwise do not believe in mystical, magical fairy tales somehow DO believe in their religion?
But I DO miss the COMFORT that religion sometimes brings. Does THAT make it more clear?
And incidentally, I hope you had (or are having!) a wonderful visit with your mom.
I had a feeling there was more to your earlier comment than I could necessarily know, and yes, I get it...
I suppose we can all appreciate the days when those sorts of comforts were easier to come by. Those of us lucky enough to enjoy them when we were younger anyway. If for no other reason because we were younger and able to gain that kind of comfort thanks to simply being younger. More trusting, innocent and looking to our parents to provide that sort of protection and guidance with religion sometimes included.
Religion was never part of our children's upbringing, however. Not at home anyway, so I suppose they may not relate to what you explain too well. I can to a point, but personally I just don't have those sorts of inclinations anymore. I have loved and lost plenty enough to know the pain of losing loved ones. Family, friends and dear pets, but I guess I long ago accepted the "cycle of life" in a way that doesn't cause me to feel wanting or needing any belief about re-uniting with anyone after they/we have died.
Makes me think this might make for another interesting thread topic. How to find peace as an atheist.
I did indeed have a good visit with my mother. Thank you. Though as usual it's something of a very slow-motion experience. Sad in a way to see her so limited in so many ways so that she lives a very low quality of life. Though very well cared for all considered. She likes to say that at her age "the party is over," and no doubt she is resigned to just mark her days until she can mark no more. On the down side, I found out my sister who lives nearby her came down with Covid the day before. I always visit her family when I am there too, but yesterday I wasn't able because they are all now under quarantine. Obviously I don't want Covid, and I was also visiting my 92 year old mother. What a thing. Ridiculous this Covid continues to mess with so many people the way it does.
My stepson has become quite the chef and for some years now, he's insisted on doing all the planning and cooking for Thanksgiving and Christmas. My wife and I are both losing weight and do not want a giant Christmas meal to throw a wrench in that so he is going to make a fancy spread of Asian food, mostly Chinese. Makes his own dumplings, etc. We can partake piecemeal almost like tapas, as little or as much as we like.
My wife's iPad battery is dying after several years of faithful service so I ordered her a new one which will arrive in time for Christmas. We don't give each other gifts unless there's something we actually need. Many times in years past because of visitation agreements between households, we had a gift exchange on Thanksgiving instead of Christmas. We called it "Chrisgiving" (flows a little better than "Thanksgivmas" I think).
This is what Christmas should be, low-key and pleasant.
Very nice to have someone in the family who is "quite the chef." I've got a few in-laws who are well above average along those lines too. One who actually cooks for a living. Worked under Alice Waters at her Che Panisse restaurant in Berkeley early in her career and then went on to become a head chef for a tech company in San Francisco. Specializing in healthy sustainable farm-to-table cooking of food from local sources. I like to cook as well, and I'm usually the one who puts together the holiday meals anymore, but my wife still joins in doing plenty of that too. She used to do all of it when we first got married, but over time I really came to enjoy helping until eventually I took over most of the meal making. Over thanksgiving at the in-law's, my contribution was specially made mashed potatoes that went over pretty well it seemed.
Hate to admit my wife and I are "cheating" a bit this year by buying a pre-prepared roast at Costco that is just delicious. Helps to reduce time in the kitchen of course, and everyone seems to love it. I'll add a helping for everyone of my special mashed potatoes though! Never had Chinese for a Christmas meal before, but all that sounds good and tasty as well. Nice of your stepson to take everyone's dietary issues into account like that, and that he has the ability to cook up a meal like that as well. Cooking up foreign foods other than Mexican is not something I generally venture to do.
Your comment also reminds me of how getting a Christmas present for my wife is always difficult, because it's hard to think of anything she wants that she doesn't have or can't get any time she likes. I've expressed the want of a thing or two. Like the phone wallet I want for my phone. New pair of slippers because mine just fell apart. So she gets those things, wraps them up as Xmas gifts and that's what I get for Xmas. I always like to surprise her with her Xmas gifts though, so for me it's always more of an ordeal. I still don't know what I'm going to get for her to put under the tree. Fortunately we've got all the gifts for the kids done and wrapped already.
Again, the kids are coming with their dogs, so we'll have four dogs here for Xmas, and I don't know how "low key" our Xmas can be, but I'm glad to say we don't expect anything in the way of stress over the holiday. We always have a pretty enjoyable time together no matter what the occasion. Just this morning I realized the 49rs are playing Christmas day however. My son is a bigger fan than I am, and that's saying something! Not sure how that's going to play out either, but "it's all good" as they say. Here's hoping anyway...
I’m curious as to what gifts represent to you; you appear proud/pleased, as if there is negativity associated with giving one a Christmas gift. That said, at least all of you (and the Grinch ;-) are on the same page.
Gifts are unnecessary. Every year my mother asks me what I want for Christmas, and every year I don't have an answer. I don't think I've had an answer to that question since I was a video game-playing high schooler (in which case I'd ask for that year's version of Madden or FIFA). I wear the same few hoodies year-round; I'm only a materialist in the metaphysical sense, heh. I spend money on little besides food, alcohol and gambling. My mom invariably resorts to buying me books, which are always appreciated, but even those I could do without given that I have a library card and that I spend part of roughly 350 days per year in a bookstore. I read for the cost of a daily bookstore cafe water and tea. Generally speaking, I prefer that our family gathering just feel like a casual get-together that could occur any time of year. Sure, the meal is occasion-specific, but I have no problem with our default pizza and wings. I don't enjoy cooking and I've no desire to impose that burden on any other family member. My cousin and I used to joke as kids that we'd eventually ditch the traditions derived from our Polish heritage and adopt a pizza and chicken wing Christmas Eve meal policy. We're now 40 and 37 years old, and we both enjoy the foods of the 'wigilia' a bit more than when we were, say, ages 8 and 5, but I still don't think we'd deviate from our long-standing plans if we were in charge of the proceedings.
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 12-18-2023 at 11:04 AM..
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