Lamenting the lure of the madness (born, Christians, choice, experience)
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The only hope, apart from containing these dictators ("It's what he is") which seems to be catching on like a disease, from Peru to Hungary, is to understand and explain what is going on and if the old crazy dudes who see it all as prophecy coming true and the antechrist son to appear are closed to reason, there are some signs that the demographic worldwide is amenable to reason, and the more states that are run by rational rulers elected by rational voters, the more easily we can contain crazy dictators allowed to impose themselves on a confused populace, never mind those who know where they are with one clod raving about rooting out enemies of the state rather than doing anything useful.
Religious justifications for autocratic rulers provide cover for the religious to back them, but the reasons for them arising are more prosaic. As people's economic lot becomes worse and worse, and they have no hope that they (or at least their [grand]children) have hope for a better life; and especially if life is actively getting worse in the present ... then people turn on each other and embrace various "strong men" rulers. They want things "fixed", painlessly, at ANY cost to others. All an autocrat need do is appeal to enough members of some perceived or concocted in-group that the ascendant/prospective ruler makes lavish promises to.
Of course where this fits well with the fundagelical agenda is that they dream of a theocracy, a particular kind of autocracy. A quasi-theocracy, where a lot of public policy is connected to the Will of God, will suffice for them.
True enough. But if they knew that dictators make life worse for them (sooner or later) they wouldn't be so easily fooled. Not that they can always do anything about it. Who controls the military controls the rulership. I watched a video on my Myanmar of which I have many fond memories. Where finally the NLD bit the bullet and teamed up with the separatist states (1) and look like they could actually defeat the military Junta's army.
(1) they made it work on Yugoslavia, it will have to work in Burma plus Pegu, Arakan, Moulmein, Shan states Kayah etc. Separate states and maybe even a mutual coalition of states. Whuch Burma always pretended to be.
True enough. But if they knew that dictators make life worse for them (sooner or later) they wouldn't be so easily fooled.
Autocracies are not sustainable and eventually unravel ... but not usually until there has been many years or even decades of human suffering. Then a couple of generations later everyone forgets what happened and then it all starts over.
If it's any consolation if things keep going south for them the group they will most hate are the one's who were in on it at one time. Those people will become the truly evil of the outgroup...apostates!
My husband's aunt is in her 80s and now must be in assisted living. She, as she aged, got more paranoid and went down the well of conspiracy theories. Push came to shove when she started calling 911 because of online "news" and videos where she was believing all sorts of terrible things were happening and she was "going to be next".
You may not think he's dottering but he may well be far down that path.
My husband's aunt is in her 80s and now must be in assisted living. She, as she aged, got more paranoid and went down the well of conspiracy theories. Push came to shove when she started calling 911 because of online "news" and videos where she was believing all sorts of terrible things were happening and she was "going to be next".
You may not think he's dottering but he may well be far down that path.
Yes this kind of thinking can feed on itself and can be amplified by physiological processes of dementia and of course by supportive ideologies such as the concept of religious faith (belief without evidence). It can also be amplified by co-morbidities that support rigid or repetitive thinking, such as OCD or autism. How it will play out with my brother will be, as it is for everyone, a complex stew. I do think his an undiagnosed Aspie or at least leans that way; this does not help.
My main point in this space is that he'd be better rather than worse off without his fundamentalist Christianity, at least with regard to how he explains / makes sense of the real world. I see this as at least half the problem, quite possible much more.
I had a phone conversation Thanksgiving morning with my fundagelical brother that was deeply disturbing to me. This brother is #2 of 4 boys (#1 is no longer living, I am #4) and he has always been a little bit given to gullibility ... the sort of person who would listen to Art Bell's "Coast to Coast AM" radio broadcast about aliens among us, etc., half for entertainment and half believing it. So I am not putting this entirely at the feet of the cultish side of the religion I escaped from some thirty years ago, but ... yeah mostly I am.
Because in his dotage (and no he's not demented) it's becoming impossible to have a normal conversation with him, without it turning into some "us vs them" diatribe or other.
This time I made the "mistake" of mentioning in passing that my stepdaughter had attended America's most expensive private university, NYU (her biological father has more money than sense) and my brother launched on a fulminating rant about how he hates NYU and Columbia because the students are protesting the war in Gaza ... it is all a dark conspiracy and they don't even know what's REALLY going on. He, of course does, but it is not informed, let us just say, by reputable or verified sources, but rather by the propaganda of various religious factions stoking the flames.
Setting aside the politics or debating the truth of things of which we must not speak -- my point isn't the specific topic but rather this need to turn everything into a drama with himself on-stage as the avatar and arbiter of capital-T Truth, and it always is hiding behind God, this imaginary friend who always agrees with his views on everything and so to be skeptical of him is to question the Almighty Himself.
It's an odd way to lose a family member in slow stages ... sort of like cancer but even less dignified.
Whatever happened to the brilliant electrical engineer who I assume is still in there somewhere, I don't pretend to know. This guy was never the world's most pleasant individual -- my mother always used to shake her head and speak of "my little black sheep" - but he was our posterior orifice and we loved him. But things are turning quite dark now, and invariably in the name of God. He seems to have no working moral judgment anymore, and he doesn't see a problem with that.
I suppose this is why I have been pushing back elsewhere around here so much lately against Christians making excuses for slavery (and why not, because the Bible leads from behind on that topic) or otherwise equivocating on reasonably simple moral issues when it serves them to defend some pet dogma or other. Always on about their superior morality even while demonstrating a lack of rudimentary moral judgment. Also, quite often seeking black and white "clarity" where nuance is required.
[sigh] well this is just screaming into the void I suppose, I don't expect anyone to offer up a deus ex machina for my brother or something ... just wanted to get it off my chest. The world seems to be descending into madness and Jesus seems to be leading the way far too much of the time.
I have a brother who used to walk around metaphorically beating everyone over the head with his bible. He did it when he was in a bad head space (bi polar seems to run in our family). Right now he is doing well and seems to be happy so instead of the bible stuff we get fun conspiracy theories like "if you feel a virus coming on chew some nicotine gum because it will make you feel better" So, all those smokers out there should never get sick right? I prefer that to the "everyone's wrong because they don't have god in their life".
Maybe your brother is having a hard time with something. Try to ask him what is going on in his life and maybe you will find that he is deflecting his problems onto what he thinks is going on in the world.
Yes this kind of thinking can feed on itself and can be amplified by physiological processes of dementia and of course by supportive ideologies such as the concept of religious faith (belief without evidence). It can also be amplified by co-morbidities that support rigid or repetitive thinking, such as OCD or autism. How it will play out with my brother will be, as it is for everyone, a complex stew. I do think his an undiagnosed Aspie or at least leans that way; this does not help.
My main point in this space is that he'd be better rather than worse off without his fundamentalist Christianity, at least with regard to how he explains / makes sense of the real world. I see this as at least half the problem, quite possible much more.
Black & white thinking is the foundation of all of it.
Believe or not, Us and them, with us or against us. I grew up with this instinctive (evolved or learned) where one had to pick a belief and fight for it. The object fot eh game is to get the biggest group and make the Others the banished, the disenfranchised, the outsiders, the excommunicated.
I could go down a few rabbit holes like where the minority can play the victim, exploit majority tolerance and start to demonise the majority because they think differently.
Or the one where the more reasonable figureheads of the In group get deposed by more extreme power seekers on the grounds that they were BEINOS - believers in name only. Or become paranoid in seeking out, controlling and if necessary or just to be safe disgracing the rival with some scandal real or faked, show trial and expelled. Though China just marches them out of the congress and they vanish.
But I'll just mention how in the UFO world I'd been watching a prominent spokesman (Shuttlewood) who produced three books, which showed either a descent into craziness, book by book, or deliberate fraud. Fraud I may say was rife in the UFO world, and I soon realised that it was the same kind of thinking as religious apologetics - it was ok to fake evidence because the fact was based on their belief in it. So fooling people into believing what was true anyway, was good and permissible.
I find this with Theisthink all the time. Evidence is only of value if it supports the Belief. If it doesn't, lie about it. We (sorry, I) know this happens as science is wagged about (true, quotemined out of context or fiddled and lied about) if it supports the Faithbased case. If it doesn't (used by the skeptics, evolutionists and atheists ) it is dismissed as mere opinion.
Believe or not, Us and them, with us or against us. I grew up with this instinctive (evolved or learned) where one had to pick a belief and fight for it. The object fot eh game is to get the biggest group and make the Others the banished, the disenfranchised, the outsiders, the excommunicated.
I could go down a few rabbit holes like where the minority can play the victim, exploit majority tolerance and start to demonise the majority because they think differently.
Or the one where the more reasonable figureheads of the In group get deposed by more extreme power seekers on the grounds that they were BEINOS - believers in name only. Or become paranoid in seeking out, controlling and if necessary or just to be safe disgracing the rival with some scandal real or faked, show trial and expelled. Though China just marches them out of the congress and they vanish.
But I'll just mention how in the UFO world I'd been watching a prominent spokesman (Shuttlewood) who produced three books, which showed either a descent into craziness, book by book, or deliberate fraud. Fraud I may say was rife in the UFO world, and I soon realised that it was the same kind of thinking as religious apologetics - it was ok to fake evidence because the fact was based on their belief in it. So fooling people into believing what was true anyway, was good and permissible.
I find this with Theisthink all the time. Evidence is only of value if it supports the Belief. If it doesn't, lie about it. We (sorry, I) know this happens as science is wagged about (true, quotemined out of context or fiddled and lied about) if it supports the Faithbased case. If it doesn't (used by the skeptics, evolutionists and atheists ) it is dismissed as mere opinion.
It is sad that Mordant's brother has fallen into the trap of binary thinking As a man reaches his 80s. often the neurological senescence starts to set in, causing the brain just not to quite function as well as when they were younger. also, personality wise, most engineers I have known are already lacking in social skills and endorse a very rigid "rules" thinking....ie "It has to be this way or it will not work"
Not sure if those issues are in play but it does explain why an otherwise educated person can fall for the fundy thinking.
There is one other thing I have observed, and that is that most 80 year olds accept that their days left on our lovely blue planet are numbered. And religion is ready to swoop in with the promise of "Wait there is more : The Afterlife ! BUT only if you follow me and believe what I tell you"
BUT the how and why are irrelevant. Cats like myself blame bad religions and bad religious people for many of society's ills. The bigger question is how to approach someone like this and make them think about how they want to be remembered in perpetuity for the way they treated others. Especially their family.
Either way I wish Mordant all the best and all the support he needs
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So, all those smokers out there should never get sick right? I prefer that to the "everyone's wrong because they don't have god in their life".
is to get the biggest group and make the Others the banished, the disenfranchised, the outsiders, the excommunicated. 
disgracing the rival with some scandal real or faked, show trial and expelled. Though China just marches them out of the congress and they vanish. 
) it is dismissed as mere opinion.
