[Threerun]

It is an opinion based on observations. I’ve been in Montana about 15 years and haven’t heard any complaints from anyone. But yes- different state.

Have a good one.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by Threerun

It is an opinion based on observations. I’ve been in Montana about 15 years and haven’t heard any complaints from anyone. But yes- different state.

Have a good one.

I'll agree with you that in many areas they aren't more than a minor blip. I'm not so sure about Vermont though. I'm a member of the Lamoille Valley Rail Trail group on Facebook, and some of the posts there, as well as various news stories, make me realize how really different the Vermont of today is compared to the Vermont of the 1950s-1980s.

[arctichomesteader]

Montana is a huge state with vast open areas of undeveloped land. Vermont is a tiny state and most of the land is private land and much of that associated with homes or farms or personal woodlots. When an ATV goes up a forest service road in MT it's not having the same negative impacts as one going up a road with dozens of homes along it and people who want to have some peace and quiet in their own homes. When an ATV went off road here onto my property, it wasn't some random patch of public forest. It was my private woodlot where I invested money and time into seedlings and saplings I planted, which the ATV damaged.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

I'll agree with you that in many areas they aren't more than a minor blip. I'm not so sure about Vermont though. I'm a member of the Lamoille Valley Rail Trail group on Facebook, and some of the posts there, as well as various news stories, make me realize how really different the Vermont of today is compared to the Vermont of the 1950s-1980s.

It's changed in the 20 years I've been here....and not for the better in many ways.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Montana is a huge state with vast open areas of undeveloped land. Vermont is a tiny state and most of the land is private land and much of that associated with homes or farms or personal woodlots. When an ATV goes up a forest service road in MT it's not having the same negative impacts as one going up a road with dozens of homes along it and people who want to have some peace and quiet in their own homes. When an ATV went off road here onto my property, it wasn't some random patch of public forest. It was my private woodlot where I invested money and time into seedlings and saplings I planted, which the ATV damaged.

Exactly. Many property owners have already indicated they are not in favor of this. And this is the 2nd time around with this issue' didn't pass the first time either. It's just a bad idea for this area.....but I understand that the Select Board feels an obligation to bring it up for discussion and for residents to vote on (unless they put the kabosh on it before it even gets that far). The committee is supposed to do a presentation of some sort at Town Meeting.

[stephenMM]

People sometimes use golf carts in Florida on the roads, but only in smaller cities that can facilitate them. They're usually senior citizens who are going to drive pokey slow, but ATV's always end up being driven by hot rodder types and youngsters who drive recklessly. They have a lot more power and speed than a golf cart, and essentially zero safety provisions. Quite a few people have lost their lives driving these things on the roads.

Look at that photo. No lighting such as brake lights and turn signals, no roll bar, no windshield wipers, probably no safety harness. If you have a car or big truck hit you or end up flipping it (which they are prone to do), you and anyone else on it is probably dead. Being killed is probably the best case scenario compared to the catastrophic injuries that would occur. In no way shape or form are they legal on a public road because they are in violation of almost every Federal safety standard there is. I can just imagine the lawsuits these politicians and cities will be hit with when people are maimed or killed by them.

Of course, motorcycles don't have many of those safety features either, but a 4 wheeled ATV ain't no motorcycle.

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by stephenMM

People sometimes use golf carts in Florida on the roads, but only in smaller cities that can facilitate them. They're usually senior citizens who are going to drive pokey slow, but ATV's always end up being driven by hot rodder types and youngsters who drive recklessly. They have a lot more power and speed than a golf cart, and essentially zero safety provisions. Quite a few people have lost their lives driving these things on the roads.

Look at that photo. No lighting such as brake lights and turn signals, no roll bar, no windshield wipers, probably no safety harness. If you have a car or big truck hit you or end up flipping it (which they are prone to do), you and anyone else on it is probably dead. Being killed is probably the best case scenario compared to the catastrophic injuries that would occur. In no way shape or form are they legal on a public road because they are in violation of almost every Federal safety standard there is. I can just imagine the lawsuits these politicians and cities will be hit with when people are maimed or killed by them.

Of course, motorcycles don't have many of those safety features either, but a 4 wheeled ATV ain't no motorcycle.

Actually some of the SxS ATV's have brake lights, turn signals, roll bars, windshield wipers and belts. In my case I use hand signals, which is perfectly legal. Being both a motorcycle operator and an ATV- either one you usually wind up on the losing fight with a car or truck. That's a risk the operator always takes on the road.

The statement "but ATV's always end up being driven by hot rodder types and youngsters who drive recklessly." is simply not true. There are always those types that will ride an ATV, motorcycle or operate a car or truck in a reckless manner. Those are exceptions and not the rule. Actually the reason I largely AVOID long rides over the road is due to people in vehicles texting and driving and not paying attention. I had several near misses commuting to work on my Triumph Tiger. I sold it- done because of irresponsible, reckless unattentive vehicle operators.

Montana is not an outlier. We don't have roving bands of reckless ATV operators destroying property or turning our public roads into MadMax at the Thunderdome.

[Riley.]

The people on the 'pro' side of the ATV on public roads issue claim that 'responsible' drivers will not be the yahoos who skid and rev and speed, etc. However, in a place where there is no enforcement at all, and I'm not even sure we can contain ridership to our own town residents, all bets are off.
We have some kids (12-15 or thereabouts) who periodically race up and down our street during the summer. We live on a knoll and I have personally watched them catch air riding down the middle of the road coming over that hill. We finally got some signs warning of a limited site distance driveway (ours) but that didn't deter them in 2023.

I agree with Threerun about distracted drivers. They are all over the place here. I see people smoking pot while driving!

It's great when you can predict responsible ridership on remote trails, etc, but that's not here. unfortunately.

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by Riley.

The people on the 'pro' side of the ATV on public roads issue claim that 'responsible' drivers will not be the yahoos who skid and rev and speed, etc. However, in a place where there is no enforcement at all, and I'm not even sure we can contain ridership to our own town residents, all bets are off.
We have some kids (12-15 or thereabouts) who periodically race up and down our street during the summer. We live on a knoll and I have personally watched them catch air riding down the middle of the road coming over that hill. We finally got some signs warning of a limited site distance driveway (ours) but that didn't deter them in 2023.

I agree with Threerun about distracted drivers. They are all over the place here. I see people smoking pot while driving!

It's great when you can predict responsible ridership on remote trails, etc, but that's not here. unfortunately.

Actually irresponsible behavior (here) occurs mostly out on the trails. One of the Scouts in our last troop built a jackleg fence around a mountain lake that the numbskulls would turn into a mudhole- destroying the vegetation. The lake is a cutthroat trout recovery project, and that buffer is needed for water clarity.

The Forest Service is seriously considering shutting down trails due to irresponsible behavior like that. Trust me- I'm not a pollyanna on the issue of ATV's, but most of the OTR drivers I see are licensed and follow the rules of the law. A deputy is just an inclined to cite an irresponsible ATV operator or vehicle driver.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by Riley.

The people on the 'pro' side of the ATV on public roads issue claim that 'responsible' drivers will not be the yahoos who skid and rev and speed, etc. However, in a place where there is no enforcement at all, and I'm not even sure we can contain ridership to our own town residents, all bets are off.
We have some kids (12-15 or thereabouts) who periodically race up and down our street during the summer. We live on a knoll and I have personally watched them catch air riding down the middle of the road coming over that hill. We finally got some signs warning of a limited site distance driveway (ours) but that didn't deter them in 2023.

I agree with Threerun about distracted drivers. They are all over the place here. I see people smoking pot while driving!

It's great when you can predict responsible ridership on remote trails, etc, but that's not here. unfortunately.

Back when my wife and I first moved up to rural AL, and when our neighbors (who were religious and strict on many things) were on vacation, we had a night of GOBs deciding to use the area for drag racing. I loaded up my long rifle, got a big flashlight, and sat on the porch of the old house on the property. Whenever I saw them, I shown the light, smiled, and showed the long gun. No need to call a sheriff, no muss no fuss, they understood country manners. I'm not sure that would hold in your area now - which seems to be making the news.

75 YO man using a muzzle loader to repel home invaders? Vigilantes trying to find and stop a repeat tip and run offender? The Georgia in the south ain't that bad.