[GeoffD]

Vermont has gun law and gun ownership rates consistent with an extremely rural state. People grow up with gun safety. In my life experience, if you’re elderly in a rural place with guns in the house and have a painful terminal condition like pancreatic cancer, suicide is a rational choice. I have life experience with it. I also suspect that the same conditions that lead to opiate addiction in rural places like Vermont also lead to a lot of suicides since guns are so ubiquitous.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Vermont has gun law and gun ownership rates consistent with an extremely rural state. People grow up with gun safety. In my life experience, if you’re elderly in a rural place with guns in the house and have a painful terminal condition like pancreatic cancer, suicide is a rational choice. I have life experience with it. I also suspect that the same conditions that lead to opiate addiction in rural places like Vermont also lead to a lot of suicides since guns are so ubiquitous.

I agree with that. I really wish the bill in Mass that was to legalize medically assisted suicide had not suffered a narrow defeat some 10 years ago. Having spent a good deal of time with my mother in her final weeks and being present holding her hand when she passed from congestive heart failure, I thought - there is no way that I want to go through that... if I have any choice, I'd rather just skip the worst part of dying. Either way, you end up dead, so why not skip the suffering? Not sure if I'd use a gun - I'd be worried that I'd be grievously wounded and *not* die, but I can understand why someone would go that route.

[Phorlan]

I see, the OP is probably a moron. Of course. And of course the people who conducted the study are also morons, as somebody implied.
I'm not even obsessed a tiny bit by the Southern States. Not in the least. If I'm obsessed at all it can be summarized by this: I don't care about them, I don't and won't go there.
What I meant is NOT that VT is like the South. I meant that AS FAR AS GUNS DEATH it had the same dynamic. Can you see that in my original post?
Is it legit to wonder why NH, which has as many guns are VT doesn't have the same dynamic? Is that legit to wonder why or it's actually forbidden to wonder about this and if I do it makes me a weirdo? How come Maine, which has even more guns, I'd say, since the laws are more relaxed, has a weaker rate of suicide by guns?
Geeez, guys, all I wanted is to have somebody's opinion on this as we look at the study and the other neighboring states and some southern states, for comparison, not because I'm obsessed with them.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Phorlan

I see, the OP is probably a moron. Of course. And of course the people who conducted the study are also morons, as somebody implied.
I'm not even obsessed a tiny bit by the Southern States. Not in the least. If I'm obsessed at all it can be summarized by this: I don't care about them, I don't and won't go there.
What I meant is NOT that VT is like the South. I meant that AS FAR AS GUNS DEATH it had the same dynamic. Can you see that in my original post?
Is it legit to wonder why NH, which has as many guns are VT doesn't have the same dynamic? Is that legit to wonder why or it's actually forbidden to wonder about this and if I do it makes me a weirdo? How come Maine, which has even more guns, I'd say, since the laws are more relaxed, has a weaker rate of suicide by guns?
Geeez, guys, all I wanted is to have somebody's opinion on this as we look at the study and the other neighboring states and some southern states, for comparison, not because I'm obsessed with them.

Vermont probably has the bleakest economic situation of the three states.

[M3 Mitch]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Vermont probably has the bleakest economic situation of the three states.

Oddly enough, IMHO, largely self-inflicted. The business climate in VT is way worse than NH, while the physical geography of the two states is mostly similar..

VT and NH are like beautiful twin sisters, but, one of them is crazy.

Meanwhile, OP, if people in VT were killing themselves but not using guns, would that be OK with you?

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by M3 Mitch

Oddly enough, IMHO, largely self-inflicted. The business climate in VT is way worse than NH, while the physical geography of the two states is mostly similar..

VT and NH are like beautiful twin sisters, but, one of them is crazy.

Meanwhile, OP, if people in VT were killing themselves but not using guns, would that be OK with you?

Yes. It's very telling driving up the CT River valley. The VT side is dead, with rundown, empty buildings where businesses and industries used to be and rundown houses people are struggling to keep up. The NH side has a decent economy for a rural state. In the winter the VT side has it potholed roads covered in packed snow, slush, and ice, while NH often has bare roads or close to it, and the roads have smooth pavement relatively speaking. There's not even a grocery store in my town in the NEK anymore.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by Phorlan

I see, the OP is probably a moron. Of course. And of course the people who conducted the study are also morons, as somebody implied.
I'm not even obsessed a tiny bit by the Southern States. Not in the least. If I'm obsessed at all it can be summarized by this: I don't care about them, I don't and won't go there.
What I meant is NOT that VT is like the South. I meant that AS FAR AS GUNS DEATH it had the same dynamic. Can you see that in my original post?
Is it legit to wonder why NH, which has as many guns are VT doesn't have the same dynamic? Is that legit to wonder why or it's actually forbidden to wonder about this and if I do it makes me a weirdo? How come Maine, which has even more guns, I'd say, since the laws are more relaxed, has a weaker rate of suicide by guns?
Geeez, guys, all I wanted is to have somebody's opinion on this as we look at the study and the other neighboring states and some southern states, for comparison, not because I'm obsessed with them.

It is gun deaths please. Have you been to VT especially in winter? I worked this market for 1 1/2 years. It is not pretty. Statistics are a good as their creator. What do you consider a Southern State and how do you compare it to VT?

[Phorlan]

I have an AR-15 and a Glock 34. I have no problem with guns.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Yes. It's very telling driving up the CT River valley. The VT side is dead, with rundown, empty buildings where businesses and industries used to be and rundown houses people are struggling to keep up. The NH side has a decent economy for a rural state. In the winter the VT side has it potholed roads covered in packed snow, slush, and ice, while NH often has bare roads or close to it, and the roads have smooth pavement relatively speaking. There's not even a grocery store in my town in the NEK anymore.

I think you can blame much of VT's crumbling on the state legislature. But I could be wrong.

We're gonna see what happens with this year's projected tax hikes. If it's as ugly as it sounds, I am outta here.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by Riley.

I think you can blame much of VT's crumbling on the state legislature. But I could be wrong.

We're gonna see what happens with this year's projected tax hikes. If it's as ugly as it sounds, I am outta here.

I feel sorry for Vermont. My mother's family came from the NEK and I've been up there and, being from the CT River Valley of Mass, it was always a rather easy drive up to beautiful Vermont. It must be terribly isolating to live there though, and really awful in winter. Disastrous floods too.

Maine is at least easy to explain: the people with most of the guns must not live around the coastal area. They live in the woods and use their guns for hunting. New Hampshire I don't understand. I only know southern NH and it's a pretty nice place with beaches, rich towns, nice farms. Maybe (unlike what they say) the influence of densely populated, affluent eastern MA helps them. In contrast, Vermont only has very rural MA on its southern border.

New Hampshire has a better tourist industry with Lake Sunapee and mountains. VT has the mountains and people from western MA go there skiing but it's just not a very exciting place to go and the mountains make for tedious driving just to get anywhere. And when you get there, there's nothing there anyway. Beautiful state for camping though, good for maple syrup.