Toledo or Cleveland (Akron, Lakewood, Ottawa Hills: middle-class, rental, chapel)

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by miamian in nc

The Prof, are there any bluer areas in either city?

I have no knowledge re Toledo... In Cleveland, Shaker Hts/Shaker Square-Larchmere are very blue, as is the University Circle-Uptown neighborhood. Apt prices are high in the latter, although some new places, like the huge Cenric apt building, has more affordable micro units, I understand. On the West Side, Ohio City and Tremont are definitely blue and walkable. Detroit-Shoreway is, too, but is still a bit rough around the edges in some parts, but rapidly improving.

[Tobias C]

Toledo itself is a fairly Democratic city. These totally arent super accurate stats but I was looking up how many registered voters of each party there was in all the cities and towns of metro Toledo. Toledo skewed about 2/3 Democrat, 1/3 Republican. Perrysburg, Sylvania, and Maumee all skew the opposite...about 2/3 Republican and 1/3 Democrat. Cities such as Oregon and Holland were closer to being half/half.

And Ferraris correct that the Old West End is easily the most liberal neighborhood of Toledo. Lots of neighborhoods skew heavily Democrat where Blacks and Latinos are the majority and tend to vote that way, and many working class neighborhoods lean slightly that way as well, but that's often the case in most cities,especially in the the Rust Belt. The OWE is where most people would say the most "progressive" liberals can be found though.

[ferraris]

Tobias, I hadn't realized the immediate Toledo suburbs leaned red.

WR_Native, point taken on the art museums. I also go about as often as you, but I'm not exactly a connoisseur of art or anything -- it's just something to occupy a few hours of my time. To me, I get the same enjoyment out of either one. But I can see where someone who is more into art would prefer Cleveland's.

Another thing to consider with the art museums is that you could conceivably find a place within walking distance at your price range in Toledo, whereas that's not very likely near Cleveland's art museum. If nothing else, you'll at least be able to park for free within a few blocks in Toledo, where you'd have to pay in Cleveland of hunt for cheap/free meter spaces depending on the time of day. Cleveland's museum also has RTA access. Thankfully, both museums have free admission.

You have a tough decision to make. I really think your lower budget would do better in Toledo, but I can see the extra appeal Cleveland would have to you as well.

[WRnative]

One advantage for an art lover living in Toledo is that the Detroit Institute of Art is within easy day trip distance of Toledo, as is the University of Michigan art museum in Ann Arbor. The DIA is one of the best in the U.S., but it has faced serious financial difficulties compared to the CMA in recent years and the museum isn't as vibrant or technologically advanced as the CMA.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Another thing to consider with the art museums is that you could conceivably find a place within walking distance at your price range in Toledo, whereas that's not very likely near Cleveland's art museum. If nothing else, you'll at least be able to park for free within a few blocks in Toledo, where you'd have to pay in Cleveland of hunt for cheap/free meter spaces depending on the time of day. Cleveland's museum also has RTA access. Thankfully, both museums have free admission.

You have a tough decision to make. I really think your lower budget would do better in Toledo, but I can see the extra appeal Cleveland would have to you as well.

Given the excellent mass transit service to University Circle, the OP likely could find some place affordable with easy access to University Circle, which offers several other excellent attractions besides the Cleveland Museum of Art. The Alcazar apartments in Cleveland Hts. are within walking distance of the CMA, and certainly within biking distance, but it is uphill from UC. The Alcazar often is recommended as an immediate residence for newcomers to Cleveland seeking easy access to UC while familiarizing themselves with the area.



https://thealcazar.com/


The OP should check out this thread, perhaps particularly threads dealing with the Larchmere neighborhood.


https://www.city-data.com/forum/clev...eveland-2.html

[miamian in nc]

I will for sure check out the Alcazar. Thanks so much for that tip, WRnative. I viewed the others last night also about some of the other cities that I never thought of. I know the west side of Cleveland well but not the east. I wish I had been to Toledo when I lived in Cleveland. I went to Put in Bay but never made it to Toledo.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Given the excellent mass transit service to University Circle, the OP likely could find some place affordable with easy access to University Circle, which offers several other excellent attractions besides the Cleveland Museum of Art. The Alcazar apartments in Cleveland Hts. are within walking distance of the CMA, and certainly within biking distance, but it is uphill from UC. The Alcazar often is recommended as an immediate residence for newcomers to Cleveland seeking easy access to UC while familiarizing themselves with the area.

https://thealcazar.com/

Any idea on their pricing? She mentioned apartments at $600 with at least heat included, which is why I'm focusing quite a bit on costs.

If she continues to plan to own and use a car, the extra money for an RTA pass might not fit easily into her budget ($5.50/day or $95/month). Senior fares cut that down considerably, but don't start until age 65.

Both cities are very cheap on a national scale, but the extra couple hundred a month she might save on rent and costs of living in Toledo might be a significant factor.

Miamian, in your shoes I think I would focus on Larchmere/Shaker Square if you feel you can afford it. Don't forget to factor in parking costs, as the buildings are older and don't typically have free spots included in the rent.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

One advantage for an art lover living in Toledo is that the Detroit Institute of Art is within easy day trip distance of Toledo, as is the University of Michigan art museum in Ann Arbor. The DIA is one of the best in the U.S., but it has faced serious financial difficulties compared to the CMA in recent years and the museum isn't as vibrant or technologically advanced as the CMA.

Thankfully, Detroit's dire financial situation has stabilized and the threat to sell off parts of DIA's collection never came to pass. It's a larger collection than CMA in an older museum (founded in the 1880s iirc as opposed to CMA's founding in 1916). Still CMA's collection is highly regarded and no museum sits as beautiful building in such a lush setting as Cleveland's art museum... none.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Thankfully, Detroit's dire financial situation has stabilized and the threat to sell off parts of DIA's collection never came to pass. It's a larger collection than CMA in an older museum (founded in the 1880s iirc as opposed to CMA's founding in 1916). Still CMA's collection is highly regarded and no museum sits as beautiful building in such a lush setting as Cleveland's art museum... none.

The Detroit Institute of Art relies greatly for its operations on multi-county tax levies. Its collection is magnificent, but it in particular lacks the heft of the CMA's Asian collection. The DIA focuses greatly on old European masters, and it can seem repetitive and stodgy in the modern world. I haven't visited the DIA since the Detroit bankruptcy, but one lasting impression was the lack of benches; visitors actually had to lift folding chairs from wall mounts and carry them around. Especially as we age, we are spoiled by the CMA's plentiful and well-placed benches.



One gallery in the DIA features Native American art, something not present in the CMA. However, the CMA's emphasis on pre-Columbian art IMO more than compensates for this omission.


The Getty museums in Los Angeles are different than the CMA (and, yes, overall I prefer the CMA physical plant after the magnificent CMA modernization), but the Getty museums certainly have magnificent settings that many would choose over the CMA. The highly specialized Getty Villa especially enchants me. The use of the word "none" is very problematic and opens Clevelanders (or anyone) to ridicule. E.g., I haven't yet visited Crystal Bridges, like the Getty, the beneficiary of a massive endowment (by a Wal-Mart heir), although even the Crystal Bridges endowment pales against that of the Getty. However, you are correct that the CMA physical plant and setting is superb.



https://crystalbridges.org/



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysta...f_American_Art



https://www.barrons.com/articles/get...ion-1411688975



What can comfortably and accurately be said is that the Toledo Museum of Art isn't in the same tier of American art museums as the CMA.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Any idea on their pricing? She mentioned apartments at $600 with at least heat included, which is why I'm focusing quite a bit on costs.

Once Ohio residency is established, the OP likely would qualify for senior living facilities. A one-time regular poster ended up in a Lakewood facility that she raved about in several posts.


https://www.city-data.com/forum/clev...-lakewood.html


$600 and a pet will be rough.