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I went to high school in the 1970s. I knew I was on a college track, but I still had to take wood shop and metal shop, learned arc welding and oxy-acetylene welding. We had an autoshop class. I don't think we had a full boat carpentry class, but we should have. We should have had electrician classes too.
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Ny kids graduated HS in the 2000s.
They were on the honors/AP track. But like every other student, they took FACS... cooking, sewing, shop, and an elective of their choice.
You don't need to go to college to find your dream job, 'degree free' entrepreneur says
That's always been true for self-starting, motivated people.
But in today's world if you are less-than-average in motivation you need that college degree to prove to prospective employers that you can at least accomplish something, if your personality and demeanor doesn't convey that.
The 1960's ideal of an Average Kid going to college "to get a better job" has been discredited by the hard financial reality that you have to get ahead, to say nothing of paying back your loans, on your own. State/County college for an average or below average kid isn't a golden ticket.
It may cover several districts, but I do not know of ANY public school in NYS that does not have access to BOCES.
No. BOCES is not in the High School building and the BOCES students are mixed with college bound students. There is one exception - Sewanahaka High School in Floral Park. All of the students are enrolled in BOCES (Vocational Education) programs, to my knowledge. At Sewanahka all students attend BOCES. Still, most do have to leave the campus to learn their trades. I am sure that you are aware that trade school training requires more than just a classroom and a desk.
The Learning Labs are specific to the trade that is being taught.
It would not be economically practical for each district to maintain two High Schools in each trade. It would be fiscally and logistically impossible.
Yes. They are bussed to a BOCES center that is in their county.
Yours is actually the first complaint I have ever heard that a bus is provided to transport vocational students from their academic High School. to their vocational center.
The BOCES program is a model of vocational education. The student receives a
regular High School diploma that does not exclude them from additional education, should they choose to obtain it. At the same time, they learn a trade at no additional expense to their families.
This is a far superior situation to attending 4 years of High School, with little interest in accademics, and no current interest in college and take out massive loans after public high school graduation to get a low paying job. A neighbor of mine did this, and after graduation, her parents paid tuition for her to get a certificate in medical assisting.
Unless your husband or wife is the physician, medical assistants are poorly compensated.
I think the bus ride would have been worth it.
BOCES does a fantastic job. I have lived in two other states as an adult, PA and OH, and neither has a program that comes close that is available state wide.
That is an irresponsible post. All my post said was: "Let's be realistic here. BOCES is not in each district. It is where a group of districts work together to offer sort of vo-tech programs. For example, Palmyra-Macedon District (where I was from) kids had to take a bus quite a distance back then to attend the BOCES program in other districts."
1. I did not say anything about any district in NYS not having BOCES.
2. I did not say anything about BOCES students mixing or not mixing.
3. I did not say anything about learning labs.
4. I did not say anything about whether there should be multiple high schools in each trade.
5. I did not even complain about BOCES. I simply said that it required quite a bus ride for some students.
6. I did not say anything about excluding BOCES students from other educational programs.
7. I did not say anything about massive loans or anything remotely connected to that toppic.
8. I did not say anything about medical assistants.
9. I did not say anything about BOCES being fantastic or give it any other judgement about how good or bad it was.
You don't need to go to college to find your dream job, 'degree free' entrepreneur says
That's always been true for self-starting, motivated people.
But in today's world if you are less-than-average in motivation you need that college degree to prove to prospective employers that you can at least accomplish something, if your personality and demeanor doesn't convey that.
The 1960's ideal of an Average Kid going to college "to get a better job" has been discredited by the hard financial reality that you have to get ahead, to say nothing of paying back your loans, on your own. State/County college for an average or below average kid isn't a golden ticket.
Go getters will always land on their feet somehow. They won't quit until they do.
Most of us cannon fodder who are not go getters, used to have a much easier path to the middle class with a college degree in a marketable major, than trying to go the blue collar route. I don't know if that holds true today or not. I just don't know.
It is not that high school kids lack options. It is that high school students are not taught they have options. I is all pretty much college prep. How do kids know about vocational schools if they are never directed to one. In any event, it should be a basic part of the high school curriculum. Options to academia should be discussed for those students who don't see an academic future for themselves.
I went to high school in the 1970s. I knew I was on a college track, but I still had to take wood shop and metal shop, learned arc welding and oxy-acetylene welding. We had an autoshop class. I don't think we had a full boat carpentry class, but we should have. We should have had electrician classes too.
That is what I am talking about. Not everybody is cut out for college.
Why do you think high schools don't have similar labs today? I installed a commercial kitchen in a high school for the kids studying for a career Culinary Arts that made ME want to take the class.
Of course it's ridiculous and unrealistic, but I've heard it made before. Regardless many operate from the assumption that any kid can go to college. Once you make that assumption, then the whole school set up becomes the same as if it were every kid. Net result is the school acts like it believes that.
It does however add extra barriers to getting that vo-tech education. Again, using my kids' school as an example there were several college prep options on site -- honors, AP, and even some CC courses taught at the high school. And they'd even arrange for distance learning if a college prep course wasn't available locally. Vo-tech students on the other hand, had to travel to the next county over where there was a tech school.
A lot of it comes down to money. To install a good vo-tech lab not only takes more space than a typical classroom, but the investment in equipment can be substantial. In the county where I worked, there was a voter-approved SPLOST (Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax) for the schools. As a result, we had the money to construct really great vocational labs, but..... you still couldn't have every lab in every school. It's just not possible.
You don't need to go to college to find your dream job, 'degree free' entrepreneur says
That's always been true for self-starting, motivated people.
But in today's world if you are less-than-average in motivation you need that college degree to prove to prospective employers that you can at least accomplish something, if your personality and demeanor doesn't convey that.
The 1960's ideal of an Average Kid going to college "to get a better job" has been discredited by the hard financial reality that you have to get ahead, to say nothing of paying back your loans, on your own. State/County college for an average or below average kid isn't a golden ticket.
Everyone who I know needed college degrees to work in their "Dream Jobs". And it is good to remember, dreams change and 17–18-year-olds are not known for their enduring life choices.
Just get a BA from anywhere and get over it. It's the new High School Diploma.
Go getters will always land on their feet somehow. They won't quit until they do.
Most of us cannon fodder who are not go getters, used to have a much easier path to the middle class with a college degree in a marketable major, than trying to go the blue collar route. I don't know if that holds true today or not. I just don't know.
Most entrepreneurs or go getters - FAIL. Unless they have a Daddy to fall back on.
You don't need to go to college to find your dream job, 'degree free' entrepreneur says
That's always been true for self-starting, motivated people.
But in today's world if you are less-than-average in motivation you need that college degree to prove to prospective employers that you can at least accomplish something, if your personality and demeanor doesn't convey that.
The 1960's ideal of an Average Kid going to college "to get a better job" has been discredited by the hard financial reality that you have to get ahead, to say nothing of paying back your loans, on your own. State/County college for an average or below average kid isn't a golden ticket.
But how motivated you are depends (partly) on whether you're in the industry or line of work
that suits your personality and interests. If you land in a job that's a perfect fit,
you'll have a lot of energy for the work, and your boss will be happy too.
But if you're a square peg in a round hole (e.g. an introvert in sales?),
everything is likely to feel like a struggle. It doesn't mean you're lazy;
it just means you're in the wrong situation.
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