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You’ve admitted on multiple other threads that your particular program just wanted people who could mindlessly follow instructions and did not encourage independent thought. You certainly don’t need to be going to an elite school to have encouragement to think independently. I would say that this distinction exists in many areas. At the better/top tier schools, the focus is on giving students the ability to teach themselves what they need to know. At the lower tier institutions, a lot more hand holding is required.
You have also admitted in multiple threads that you aren’t interested in moving, didn’t go to school outside your home area, etc. One thing that people who are successful tend to have in common is that they are willing to make some sacrifices in order to progress their careers- be it spending slightly more for school, going farther away for a good job opportunity, etc. I think at most top tier schools, there are people already willing to do these things as they are likely not living in the town with the school they attended.
You didn't answer my question. I asked, which schools in the northeast produce quality engineers? Not limiting it to anybody's particular hometown, but to a quarter of the US, and probably the majority of the US population.
What is the point of making "sacrifices" to progress a career if it does not lead to the lifestyle that you want for you and your family?
Maybe BamBam was from a high cost of living area, so his parents' income looked high on paper, so he didn't get financial aid, but also had parents who couldn't afford an expensive school. And he knew that his intended career paid modestly, so it would be smart to avoid student loans. Especially if he wanted a 9 to 5 job and wanted to focus on work life balance rather than climbing the corporate ladder. Plus, Pebbles probably had a women in STEM scholarship that you seem to support, while BamBam was not eligible because of the random fact outside his control that he was born male.
Since many posters want to eliminate standardized exams, and have everything based on teacher grades, here is another possibility: maybe BamBam was stuck with the hard teachers who gave nobody A's, so he was stuck going to a mediocre college, while maybe Pebbles got all the easy teachers who give everybody an A, so she was able to get into the elite colleges that you think produce good engineers.
Last edited by mitsguy2001; 01-26-2023 at 10:33 AM..
You didn't answer my question. I asked, which schools in the northeast produce quality engineers? Not limiting it to anybody's particular hometown, but to a quarter of the US, and probably the majority of the US population.
What is the point of making "sacrifices" to progress a career if it does not lead to the lifestyle that you want for you and your family?
Doesn’t this just make my point about hand holding x 2? No one is just going to hand me the lifestyle I want. I am going to need to make choices that will lead to that lifestyle. Chances are, it is not going to be some straight shot and it will have some ups and downs.
Doesn’t this just make my point about hand holding x 2? No one is just going to hand me the lifestyle I want. I am going to need to make choices that will lead to that lifestyle. Chances are, it is not going to be some straight shot and it will have some ups and downs.
I have no idea what your post has to do with this topic, nor do I have any idea what it has to do with the post that you responded to.
Four year degree higher education (B of S, B of A, etc...) historically was not about job training but providing a well rounded course of study that provided a foundation in various subjects besides major. Hence nearly all four year programs of any sort either by state mandate and or themselves have a core curriculum that everyone takes regardless of major. This may vary by major but still has to be done.
Back in old days as it were not everyone who went to Yale, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, etc... bothered completing their studies and taking a degree. Only those seeking to enter into the professions or another career where a degree is required often did so.
Nursing students seeking a BSN in most states are required to study higher levels of math and science than they will ever require as professional nurses. States mandate all candidates complete certain distribution of credits regardless of major to be awarded a Bachelor of Science degree.
Other purpose of higher education is to expose people to various other persons, ideas and concepts that they otherwise may not encounter or know.
On other side of things two year associate degree/community college is pretty much a job preparation scheme. While many "associate in applied science" degrees do have core course/credit distribution requirements they usually are not strict nor extensive as four year. Focus instead is on preparing degree holder for a job or career thus bulk of credits are in major area.
Just out of curiosity, does the northeast have any of these schools that produce quality engineers? Or are they only in the south and the west?
I never thought of Purdue as being in the west but, ok. Does Michigan count? Known some good astronomers from Indiana. Cornell. WPI. RPI. MIT can be good, but grads tend to be focused on other areas than we are. You can find some more if you like.
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Originally Posted by RamenAddict
You’ve admitted on multiple other threads that your particular program just wanted people who could mindlessly follow instructions and did not encourage independent thought. You certainly don’t need to be going to an elite school to have encouragement to think independently. I would say that this distinction exists in many areas. At the better/top tier schools, the focus is on giving students the ability to teach themselves what they need to know. At the lower tier institutions, a lot more hand holding is required.
You have also admitted in multiple threads that you aren’t interested in moving, didn’t go to school outside your home area, etc. One thing that people who are successful tend to have in common is that they are willing to make some sacrifices in order to progress their careers- be it spending slightly more for school, going farther away for a good job opportunity, etc. I think at most top tier schools, there are people already willing to do these things as they are likely not living in the town with the school they attended.
Thankyou. You did a much better job explaining that in fewer words than I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
Since many posters want to eliminate standardized exams, and have everything based on teacher grades, here is another possibility: maybe BamBam was stuck with the hard teachers who gave nobody A's, so he was stuck going to a mediocre college, while maybe Pebbles got all the easy teachers who give everybody an A, so she was able to get into the elite colleges that you think produce good engineers.
I know BamBam. I know a bunch of BamBams, both male and female. And I know a number of Pebbles too. By the way, don't associate a gender with my use of Flintstone names. That's merely one of those names were changed to protect the innocent things. Regarding the BamBams, none of your supposed reasons are valid. The main reasons BamBams picked the college they did include -- close to home; easy to get accepted; easy to graduate from; legacy (hard to argue with that one); friends from high school went there; etc. Notice how often "easy" and "close to home/high school friends" play into this? The very things RamenAddict mentioned. They've never stretched themselves and or been really tested.
It's late so I'll have to respond to your longer question set tomorrow. 'Nite.
I never thought of Purdue as being in the west but, ok. Does Michigan count?
I'd consider both of those to be midwest.
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Known some good astronomers from Indiana.
I also consider that to be midwest.
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Cornell. WPI. RPI. MIT
All of those are extremely expensive, and not viable options for a middle class student from a high cost of living area.
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I know BamBam. I know a bunch of BamBams, both male and female. And I know a number of Pebbles too. By the way, don't associate a gender with my use of Flintstone names. That's merely one of those names were changed to protect the innocent things. Regarding the BamBams, none of your supposed reasons are valid. The main reasons BamBams picked the college they did include -- close to home; easy to get accepted; easy to graduate from; legacy (hard to argue with that one); friends from high school went there; etc. Notice how often "easy" and "close to home/high school friends" play into this? The very things RamenAddict mentioned. They've never stretched themselves and or been really tested.
You seriously never met people who chose a particular college due to financial reasons? Seriously? I'm guessing that's because you are from a low cost of living area, so the people you know are not the ones who are penalized by the financial aid formula.
The range of colleges that I considered were colleges that were too far to go home for a regular weekend, but close enough to go home for a 3 day or longer weekend. Being from the northeast, there are a lot of colleges in that zone. But it seems that none of them meet your standards other than the ultra-expensive ones that you listed above. I guess you consider that to be easy and close to home. I don't think you can fault an 18 year old who wants to live close enough to be able to spend an occasional 3 day weekend with their family.
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It's late so I'll have to respond to your longer question set tomorrow. 'Nite.
You didn't answer my question. I asked, which schools in the northeast produce quality engineers? Not limiting it to anybody's particular hometown, but to a quarter of the US, and probably the majority of the US population.
What is the point of making "sacrifices" to progress a career if it does not lead to the lifestyle that you want for you and your family?
MIT, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon and Princeton typically rank among the top 20 engineering schools in the United States.
MIT, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon and Princeton typically rank among the top 20 engineering schools in the United States.
But the poster I was responding to said that the top-ranked schools are not the ones that produce the best engineers. I think he may have a bias in favor of colleges from the south and the midwest / west.
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