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Old Yesterday, 08:26 AM
 
4,069 posts, read 2,155,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
I read the study. It actually explicitly says that even though they speculate on a link between long flights and this phenomenon, they can't prove it within the scope of their study, so the study did not actually 'find a link', it simply said a link could be a reasonable explanation for the high rate of visitor snorkeling drownings. It points to further study being necessary to prove that link.


The study did find a significant link to preexisting heart issues (i.e. this isn't happening to fit 25 year olds, but more likely 55+ individuals with health issues), so you could also place the onus on doctors to warn their patients with such conditions to avoid snorkeling.
Yup. The guy was in his sixties and looks to be overweight. Could have had pre existing heart and lung issues.

But I can see why he wouldn’t check with his doctor to see if snorkeling was okay. Most people don’t check to see if air travel is okay. And snorkeling seems so innocuous. Doesn’t seem like it would strenuous or have risks like scuba diving. The study does seem like there could be reasons why snorkeling can cause this, like a full mask is riskier. But not to be snarky, but snorkeling doesn’t seem like much of a physical activity. Even if this man didn’t exercise much, it would never occur to him or his doctor that doing it after flying would be dangerous.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
6,843 posts, read 4,300,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Your interpretation of the report differs from mine. I read "The idea that air travel may be a factor is hypothetical. We can only say that it has a credible basis in physiology". This as well as how they described how a snorkel creates air flow resistance and how this may be problematic for those on recent air travel (which was confirmed by the doctor quoted in the article) tells me they should have issues a warning. Or to be more effective it should required that resorts or anyone renting snorkel equipment issue a warning of the possible risks.

A credible but nevertheless hypothetical notion is a starting point, not a result. It's very much something that would require further investigation and could not be seen as conclusive in any way.


This is the next sentence: "In the end it will take scientific investigation beyond the capabilities of this Study to ascertain if extended exposure to altitude is indeed a risk factor."


I don't have an interpretation, I'm simply repeating what the authors of the study say.
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Old Yesterday, 12:13 PM
 
17,462 posts, read 16,639,620 times
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He was an experienced snorkeler. Shouldn't Ray have known how his own body adapted to water after a long plane ride?

I think the guy had an underlying cardiopulmonary medical condition and passed away as a result of that.

I do agree with his wife that it doesn't sound as though he drowned.
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
KCZ
 
4,689 posts, read 3,696,569 times
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Typical lousy Daily Fail article.

Snorkeling is the number one cause of death for visitors to Hawaii. (https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/n...r-long-flights)

There's no information provided about the deceased's medical history or the presence/absence of coronary disease, etc.

No discussion that the snorkeling study was inconclusive regarding a relationship between air travel and snorkeling deaths, but the study did conclude "Responsibility for personal safety lies primarily with the snorkeler."

An autopsy can differentiate between drowning and pulmonary edema in the absence of prolonged decomposition.
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Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
 
1,125 posts, read 891,025 times
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Hmmmmm….the mid 30 year old something son of a friend drowned snorkeling in Hawaii. He was an experienced swimmer and snorkeling back in the States . It was devastating !! Never heard about drowning after a flight. They called it a silent drowning. It was horrible to hear the news.
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Old Yesterday, 02:05 PM
 
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Even with silent drowning his airway would have been shut off. He couldn't have been talking, yet, the people with him said that he was.
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Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
 
22,619 posts, read 19,322,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Your interpretation of the report differs from mine. I read "The idea that air travel may be a factor is hypothetical. We can only say that it has a credible basis in physiology". This as well as how they described how a snorkel creates air flow resistance and how this may be problematic for those on recent air travel (which was confirmed by the doctor quoted in the article) tells me they should have issues a warning. Or to be more effective it should required that resorts or anyone renting snorkel equipment issue a warning of the possible risks.
yes, this makes the most sense to me, bold above.

i doubt if people bring their own snorkeling equipment with them. So it seems reasonable for those who operate snorkeling business including rental of gear, would issue this warning.
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Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
 
22,619 posts, read 19,322,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
Yup. The guy was in his sixties and looks to be overweight. Could have had pre existing heart and lung issues.

But I can see why he wouldn’t check with his doctor to see if snorkeling was okay. Most people don’t check to see if air travel is okay. And snorkeling seems so innocuous. Doesn’t seem like it would strenuous or have risks like scuba diving. The study does seem like there could be reasons why snorkeling can cause this, like a full mask is riskier. But not to be snarky, but snorkeling doesn’t seem like much of a physical activity. Even if this man didn’t exercise much, it would never occur to him or his doctor that doing it after flying would be dangerous.
in my experience, many people particularly if they are aging or overweight specifically AVOID asking their doctor anything or even going to the doctor because they don't want to hear what they may be told. there was an overweight guy at work in the office just next to mine, active guy had horses, he avoided going to the doctor because he didn't like being told to lose weight (and other health conditions.) Even on a Monday morning when he told his co-workers that he had chest pain all weekend, and they were urging him to go to the ER (we all work at a large medical center after all, yes with an ER) he said he would "wait until lunch" well he didn't make it to lunch, he dropped dead at his desk before 10am
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Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM
 
22,619 posts, read 19,322,876 times
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"According to preliminary state health data, from 2013 to 2022, there were nearly 800 fatal ocean drownings, with 54% being visitors compared to residents. Nearly 30% of those fatalities were due to snorkeling, while 21% were swimming."

Also:

"Medical experts say other aspects of a vacation in Hawaii — like prolonged sun exposure or one too many mai tais — can further increase visitors’ risk of drowning by adding to their exhaustion. Roughly 14 percent of drowning victims in Hawaii have traces of alcohol in their system, according to Health Department data."

also:

Nearly half of Hawaii’s visitors who drowned in the last 10 years had pre-existing heart conditions.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; Yesterday at 02:34 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,616 posts, read 7,833,978 times
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The USA today story is slightly different.

".. She hurried down to the beach, but “things deteriorated quickly.” At first, Ray had his head above water and was returning to the beach, but then the 64-year-old fell onto his back with his head “snapped back at one point” and had to be pulled in. “I knew he was gone,” she said. 9-1-1 was called, but medical professionals failed to resuscitate Ray.."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...g/73534534007/

Whatever the cause I don't believe the state of Hawaii has any culpability here.
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