Who hate's these Roundabout's? (Brighton: living, engineers, maps)

[BOORGONG]

There is a bunch of roundabouts in my small town south of Montreal. I love them. They save time and are a breeze to access the roads and exits you want to access.

[beachmouse]

I’ve come around to the roundabout way. The ‘traffic in the circle has the right of way’ is more straightforward than when two people traveling in opposite directions arrive at a four way stop at the same time and then there’s a big pause as they try to sort of the right away and whether someone is going to ‘be nice’ by letting the other driver go first.

[craig11152]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

The statement was that it's "illegal to change lanes in a roundabout". I say it's not.

I will concede that point.

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

If you have a driver's license, then you should know that it's ALWAYS legal to change lanes over a broken white line..

Not when its already occupied by another vehicle which was the case in the video.

In the video prior to entering the roundabout signs clearly show the right lane can either turn right or go straight and the left lane can go straight or turn left. This can be seen on Google street view at the corner of Jackson St and W Murdock in Oshkosh. This is also pretty universal in every roundabout.

Here is a link to the overhead view
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ja...5!4d-88.542869


Here is a link to the street view prior to entering the roundabout.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0385...7i16384!8i8192

So the car on the right attempted to change to a lane that was already occupied. It appears that car also did so in an attempt to turn left in a lane designated for right turns or through traffic only.

And by way of disclosure I have been driving for 54 years. I took drivers ed in Ypsilanti the summer of 1967 during the Detroit riots.

[elnina]

Originally Posted by JD59

I have friend's that hate roundabout's. Do you like them or not?

The Roundabout Drivers Hate
The one at State and Ellsworth reduced traffic backups--but also caused more accidents.

https://annarborobserver.com/the-rou...-drivers-hate/

I grow up with them and have no reason to hate.
Actually, I think, 4-way stops and non-synchronized green light should gather more hate.
Roundabouts are very useful, and only those who don't know the rules hate them...

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by WRM20

In the first section of the link I provided, it says:
Driving vehicles in a roundabout

• Slow down.
• Watch for and obey traffic signs.
• Move into the correct lane the direction you want to travel as you approach the roundabout.
• Yield to pedestrians and bicyclists as you enter and exit the roundabout.
• Yield to all lanes of traffic on your left before entering.
• Keep your speed low and stay in your lane within the roundabout (do not change lanes within the roundabout).
• Exit carefully to your destination. Use your right-turn signal, in front of the splitter island just prior to your exit, to indicate your intention to exit

.

In normal circumstances, yes a broken white line can be crossed. That is not true on that roundabout, where the go straight only takes precedence, and the broken white lines are merely lane markings that show where BOTH lanes can go straight ahead. How is the second lane supposed to go straight ahead if the right lane is allowed to continue around the roundabout? And that's ignoring the fact that you are not allowed to change lanes into another vehicle. Would you be happier if the Wisconsin Highway Department put a solid white line there?

Show me one source that explains the circumstances when a broken white line can and can't be crossed. Every single source I have ever seen says a broken line can be crossed in all circumstances.

Your above post is not based on any traffic laws, it's just instructions for how to navigate a roundabout.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by craig11152

I will concede that point.


Not when its already occupied by another vehicle which was the cae in the video.

In the video prior to entering the roundabout signs clearly show the right lane can either turn right or go straight and the left lane can go straight or turn left. This can be seen on Google street view at the corner of Jackson St and W Murdock in Oshkosh. This is also pretty universal in every roundabout.

Here is a link to the overhead view
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ja...5!4d-88.542869


Here is a link to the street view prior to entering the roundabout.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0385...7i16384!8i8192

So the car on the right attempted to change to a lane that was already occupied. It appears that car also did so in an attempt to turn left in a lane designated for right turns or through traffic only.

And by way of disclosure I have been driving for 54 years. I took drivers ed in Ypsilanti the summer of 1967 during the Detroit riots.

I'm happy that somebody understands what a broken white line means.

Yes, of course you have to check for traffic before crossing a broken white line. The car in the video did not do that.

Looking at your Google map links, honestly those images hurt my brain. But here is one of the first issues I see. Okay, you are supposed to make sure you are in the right lane before entering the roundabout. Which is easier said than done. But looking at these images, the lines before the roundabout are solid white lines. The legality of crossing a solid white line varies from state to state, but solid white lines are pretty much a no no to cross. The instructions that have been posted say that you should make sure you are in the correct lane before entering the roundabout. But really you have to make sure you are in the right lane before you get to the solid white lines. So you have to plan ahead and be in the right lane probably about a half a block before the roundabout. Which is fine if you drive that route everyday. But for someone unfamiliar with the area they are going to be right at that roundabout before they even know it. Way too late to make sure they are in the right lane.

Even if you know that roundabout and drive though it properly everyday using the right lane, you are still in danger every time you drive though it, from an unfamiliar driver who gets confused in the roundabout, or just doesn't have time to get in the right lane. Roundabouts are just, bad, bad, bad. They should be illegal, or at very least they need to be designed better then they are.

[craig11152]

Acknowledging we are watching a video from Wisconsin in a Michigan forum the quotes below are from michigan law. I highlighted the part that requires one to stay in the lane you were in when signage tells you what that lanes options are.

257.647 Turning at intersection; violation as civil infraction.
Sec. 647.

(1) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:
(a) Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.
(b) Approach for a left turn shall be made in that portion of the right half of the roadway nearest the center line in a manner as not to interfere with the progress of any streetcar, and after entering the intersection the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection to the right of the center line of the roadway being entered.
(c) Approach for a left turn from a 2-way roadway into a 1-way roadway shall be made in that portion of the right half of the roadway nearest the center line and clear of existing car tracks in use, and by passing to the right of the center line where it enters the intersection. Approach for a left turn from a 1-way roadway into a 2-way roadway shall be made as close as practicable to the left curb or edge of the roadway and by passing to the right of the center line of the roadway being entered.
(d) Where both streets or roadways are 1-way, both the approach for a left turn and a left turn shall be made as close as practicable to the left-hand curb or edge of the roadway.
(e) Local authorities in their respective jurisdictions may cause pavement markers, signs, or signals to be placed within or adjacent to intersections and thereby require and direct that a different course from that specified in this section be traveled by vehicles turning at an intersection. When markers, signs, or signals are so placed, a driver of a vehicle shall not turn a vehicle at an intersection other than as directed and required by those markers, signs, or signals.
(2) A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.

[craig11152]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

So you have to plan ahead and be in the right lane probably about a half a block before the roundabout. Which is fine if you drive that route everyday. But for someone unfamiliar with the area they are going to be right at that roundabout before they even know it. Way too late to make sure they are in the right lane. .

That is no different than were it a 4 way stop or a stop light.
You would see the same sort of signs and you would need to pick a lane depending on your intent.
I presume you aren't confused by what you shouldn't do in the left lane or right lane at a stop light or 4 way stop.
You don't turn right from the left lane, you don't turn left from the right lane, and maybe you have to turn turn left or right if that lane is designated as such. That happens at millions (?) of multi lane stop lights. Don't try to say its suddenly confusing if you take out the stop light and put in a circle.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by craig11152

Acknowledging we are watching a video from Wisconsin in a Michigan forum the quotes below are from michigan law. I highlighted the part that requires one to stay in the lane you were in when signage tells you what that lanes options are.

.

Good find. That probably gives the city the authority they need to put in a roundabout. First question is a roundabout an intersection? If not that doesn't apply. For purposes of the argument I will presume it is. But nothing in that section prohibits a driver from crossing over a broken white line. Drivers have to be able to cross over broken white lines to get into the right lane to begin with. If they don't want drivers changing lanes in the roundabout, then the lines in the roundabout should be solid white lines, not broken lines.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by craig11152

That is no different than were it a 4 way stop or a stop light.
You would see the same sort of signs and you would need to pick a lane depending on your intent.
I presume you aren't confused by what you shouldn't do in the left lane or right lane at a stop light or 4 way stop.
You don't turn right from the left lane, you don't turn left from the right lane, and maybe you have to turn turn left or right if that lane is designated as such. That happens at millions (?) of multi lane stop lights. Don't try to say its suddenly confusing if you take out the stop light and put in a circle.

When you approach a signalized intersection the procedure is pretty simple. If you are turning left make sure you are in the left lane or lanes. If turning right make sure you are in the far right lane. It doesn't really take a lot of planning.