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I'm not sure yet (still no January bill yet), I'll post back here when we get it (I expect this week). House is about 1900 square feet spread over 2 floors. Bedrooms are above average but not massive - I think 14 x 13, 14 x10, and 12x12. 2 bedrooms upstairs and 1 downstairs (with kitchen/living room). We have three condensers. One dual-zone setup for the upstairs bedrooms, one for the kitchen/living room, one for the primary bedroom which is on the 1st floor. We keep downstairs set to 67ish and upstairs set to 62ish.
Given how cold it was during that snap earlier this month, we could be in for a nasty surprise on the bill. Not looking forward to it.
Let’s hope it isn’t too bad. Mitsubishi is one of the best brands - the key is if it was sized and installed correctly.
It helps if the house has good airsealing and good insulation.
Climate in RI seems getting more mild.
Even for plants growing: most of the RI “moved” half a zone South!
Climate in RI seems getting more mild.
Even for plants growing: most of the RI “moved” half a zone South!
Indeed. And, the warming climate is happening much faster than most climate scientists predicted even 5 years ago. Splits look to be the future in Rhode Island & all of southern New England.
Let’s hope it isn’t too bad. Mitsubishi is one of the best brands - the key is if it was sized and installed correctly.
It helps if the house has good airsealing and good insulation.
We'll see. I'm expecting it to be pretty high, but the house is very well insulated and sealed (I had a friend who is a pro look it over). So maybe it won't be so bad.
But if we can see some significant savings in the spring/fall, I'll take it. I'd imagine summer should be better too. Our Boston condo had central air and was a relatively new building. But it still wasn't great on energy. I like the idea of being able to only run the AC in the specific rooms we need it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by independent man
Indeed. And, the warming climate is happening much faster than most climate scientists predicted even 5 years ago. Splits look to be the future in Rhode Island & all of southern New England.
One of our friends does HVAC in Northern Vermont. He installed splits in his home and swears they're the way to go, even up there. His argument is that they continue to get more efficient and the cost of components and maintenance is cheaper. So even if you have some stretches where they're not the most efficient heating/cooling method, they're still more cost effective in the end. He also has a pellet stove which absolutely cranks heat, so his actions don't completely match his words. But it's a pretty solid endorsement. Winter coastal RI is relatively mild. That stretch where we got into the low teens is an outlier here. That's most mornings from December-March in Vermont.
We'll see. I'm expecting it to be pretty high, but the house is very well insulated and sealed (I had a friend who is a pro look it over). So maybe it won't be so bad.
But if we can see some significant savings in the spring/fall, I'll take it. I'd imagine summer should be better too. Our Boston condo had central air and was a relatively new building. But it still wasn't great on energy. I like the idea of being able to only run the AC in the specific rooms we need it.
One of our friends does HVAC in Northern Vermont. He installed splits in his home and swears they're the way to go, even up there. His argument is that they continue to get more efficient and the cost of components and maintenance is cheaper. So even if you have some stretches where they're not the most efficient heating/cooling method, they're still more cost effective in the end. He also has a pellet stove which absolutely cranks heat, so his actions don't completely match his words. But it's a pretty solid endorsement. Winter coastal RI is relatively mild. That stretch where we got into the low teens is an outlier here. That's most mornings from December-March in Vermont.
Most of the waste of heating fuels occurs when the equipment is oversized and start cycling on and off: bad for efficiency, wears out equipment and may reduce comfort: like when A/C temperatures set too low - it cools fast but doesn’t remove humidity sufficiently.
The result is an unpleasant clammy feeling.
The HVAC guys in 99% installs do not do a so called Manual J - sort of like a bible of HVAC.
It isn’t difficult to do, just tedious and takes time to measure all windows, walls, orientation, etc to determine how much heat does your house really needs (in BTU)
Quite often we already have an old oversized equipment in our homes - the energy was cheap and the thinking was “the bigger is better” so they just replace it with the same size thoughtlessly.
The HVAC guys didn’t want to hear complaints from the homeowners that the house is chilly on cold days or nights; so they just installed a larger size equipment - as they don’t pay your monthly bills.
The heat pumps/minisplits requires a careful sizing to ensure both comfort and efficiency.
However, the same way of HVAC installers thinking prevails: they will sell you an oversized/more expensive equipment and call it a day, instead of sizing- the profit motive prevails as again - they don’t pay your monthly bills.
And according to experts - Manual J is already extra conservative - adding automatic at least 20-25% more capacity then you need.
Your friend in Vermont probably more thoughtful then professionals: having no need to oversize his equipment to have extra-capacity for those very few out of the normal range extra freezing days - and using an additional source of heat for those few days/nights keeps his monthly bills lower.
One could just use a portable infrared heater directed at the people on those days as an alternative to his pellet stove or even put extra sweaters on.
We are a bit of spoiled with the levels of energy we are using and often wasting it
Most of the waste of heating fuels occurs when the equipment is oversized and start cycling on and off: bad for efficiency, wears out equipment and may reduce comfort: like when A/C temperatures set too low - it cools fast but doesn’t remove humidity sufficiently.
The result is an unpleasant clammy feeling.
The HVAC guys in 99% installs do not do a so called Manual J - sort of like a bible of HVAC.
It isn’t difficult to do, just tedious and takes time to measure all windows, walls, orientation, etc to determine how much heat does your house really needs (in BTU)
Quite often we already have an old oversized equipment in our homes - the energy was cheap and the thinking was “the bigger is better” so they just replace it with the same size thoughtlessly.
The HVAC guys didn’t want to hear complaints from the homeowners that the house is chilly on cold days or nights; so they just installed a larger size equipment - as they don’t pay your monthly bills.
The heat pumps/minisplits requires a careful sizing to ensure both comfort and efficiency.
However, the same way of HVAC installers thinking prevails: they will sell you an oversized/more expensive equipment and call it a day, instead of sizing- the profit motive prevails as again - they don’t pay your monthly bills.
And according to experts - Manual J is already extra conservative - adding automatic at least 20-25% more capacity then you need.
Your friend in Vermont probably more thoughtful then professionals: having no need to oversize his equipment to have extra-capacity for those very few out of the normal range extra freezing days - and using an additional source of heat for those few days/nights keeps his monthly bills lower.
One could just use a portable infrared heater directed at the people on those days as an alternative to his pellet stove or even put extra sweaters on.
We are a bit of spoiled with the levels of energy we are using and often wasting.
Does the sizing rule apply to pool heat pumps? I'm having one installed in my winter place. The installer swears that over-sizing is more efficient & saves money on electricity. Splits & pool heat pumps work in the same principle.
Interesting about the sizing. I know the bedroom unit was intentionally oversized - the inspector specifically indicated that I could run an additional 6,000 BTU head off of the condenser (though I have no need to do so).
Does the sizing rule apply to pool heat pumps? I'm having one installed in my winter place. The installer swears that over-sizing is more efficient & saves money on electricity. Splits & pool heat pumps work in the same principle.
All installers do! As I said - they are not paying your bills and don’t want complaints and call backs.
(It is warranted to oversize sometimes - due to the way you will be using the pool)
- the climate
- the size/depth/orientation of the pool
- the depth of your pockets
- how impatient you are when you need to jump in the pool on a chilly day
A lot of other personal things on how you are planning to use the pool - every day? Twice a day?
A few days a month or only seasonaly or heat it 24/7/365?
The right sized heat pump would most likely take longer to bring the pool temperature to your liking on a cooler overcast day - do you may need to plan ahead, etc
This is from the site which doesn’t sell equipment or services - an unbiased opinion on sizing from the department of energy.
You could think it through and decide based on your lifestyle, needs/wants, the way you will be using your pool.
Some of my family members and friends are so drastically different based on the way they use their pools and locations -so their equipment and sizing very different - though the pools sizes and the depths are similar.
In addition, look at the refrigerants in heat pumps you are considering, their phase out periods (will be more expensive to buy those refrigerants if they leak out, if they are not available, not manufactured anymore), the refrigerants safety, efficiency, etc
Read the manuals for the heat pump to see the quality of build, corrosion resistance, maintenance needs - before you buy
Last edited by L00k4ward; 02-06-2024 at 02:29 PM..
We'll see. I'm expecting it to be pretty high, but the house is very well insulated and sealed (I had a friend who is a pro look it over). So maybe it won't be so bad.
But if we can see some significant savings in the spring/fall, I'll take it. I'd imagine summer should be better too. Our Boston condo had central air and was a relatively new building. But it still wasn't great on energy. I like the idea of being able to only run the AC in the specific rooms we need it.
One of our friends does HVAC in Northern Vermont. He installed splits in his home and swears they're the way to go, even up there. His argument is that they continue to get more efficient and the cost of components and maintenance is cheaper. So even if you have some stretches where they're not the most efficient heating/cooling method, they're still more cost effective in the end. He also has a pellet stove which absolutely cranks heat, so his actions don't completely match his words. But it's a pretty solid endorsement. Winter coastal RI is relatively mild. That stretch where we got into the low teens is an outlier here. That's most mornings from December-March in Vermont.
The weather now has more extreme swings. You still have to design the system for 0F.
The weather now has more extreme swings. You still have to design the system for 0F.
Allegedly, my system is "guaranteed" to function as low as -13F and promises to operate at "100% capacity" down to 5F. I don't really want to put either to the test.
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As I said - they are not paying your bills and don’t want complaints and call backs.
