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I haven't been to Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway or Sweden. But I'm curious whether the people or governments of these countries are "true believers" in socioeconomic equality.
There is a segment of the U.S. population that routinely praises Nordic countries for their quality of life and social programs. So, I'm wondering whether these countries are the real deal or whether there is something else going on.
Also, do most of the citizens of these countries consider themselves to be part of a very large extended family of sorts?
^^^ It happened 80 years ago and is not about social economic equality.
A group of ~150 women from Greenland are seeking compensation from its former colonial ruler Denmark in court over an involuntary birth control campaign launched in the 1960s.
Back on topic:
Scandinavian social economic equality is not even comparable with the US.
They have chosen a mixed economic system that reduces the gap between the rich and the poor through redistributive taxation and a robust public sector while preserving the benefits of capitalism.
The result is a system that treats all citizens equally and encourages workforce participation. Gender equality is a hallmark trait of the culture that results in not only a high degree of workplace participation by women but also a high level of parental engagement by men.
I haven't been to Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway or Sweden. But I'm curious whether the people or governments of these countries are "true believers" in socioeconomic equality.
There is a segment of the U.S. population that routinely praises Nordic countries for their quality of life and social programs. So, I'm wondering whether these countries are the real deal or whether there is something else going on.
Also, do most of the citizens of these countries consider themselves to be part of a very large extended family of sorts?
What else would be going on? It's not all smoke and mirrors with with a little man behind a curtain maintaining the illusions.
The people do believe in their way of life. Some even look pityingly on ours, especially after floods wipe out neighborhoods that never should have been allowed to be built in flood plains, (tsk, tsk, not enough government regulation!), the abortion wars, and so on. However, they also complain about high taxation, with the possible exception of Norway, where oil money helps fund the government.
I think it's both true in a sense. I do believe that a greater belief in 'equality' and 'solidarity' than you would find in the U.S. is baked into their culture and you don't even just have to go there, I think this would be the case in most European societies.
However that doesn't mean that rich Swedes and Danes wouldn't have status symbols and aren't glad they have the ability to do all those things. If a Swedish company director has a second home in southern Spain or Portugal then they obviously know this isn't possible for people who clean toilets for a living. It also doesn't mean that people don't have strong disagreements about just how far social solidarity should go. Some people believe that merely having a decent social safety net is enough, others believe in redistribution of wealth as a matter of principle. In all Nordic countries there are political parties with different views on that. After all, they are not communist nations.
I also believe that - it has to be said - migration is a dynamic element in this equation. The question of whether solidarity and equality are global principles that should apply to everyone everywhere equally - with all the responsibilities and sacrifices that may entail - or whether it is a principle tied to a place and limited to a particular body of people is now a very real one. And I think it challenges certain cultural beliefs because when many of those beliefs were formed 100+ years ago this issue didn't really exist. The traditional push for social reform and activist government was always marked by a demand of justice, bread etc. for 'us'. If the 'us' is uncertain or extremely broad, the situation is fundamentally altered on the ground.
I've been to Denmark. Prices and wages are set by the European Union.
American progressives love to hold up Denmark as a Socialist country where socialism really works. The problem with that is that Denmark is not a socialist country. The Danes I spoke with were offended by our president telling everyone that they are a socialist country. They have a parliamentary democracy as their form of government
They have socialized medicine and extremely high taxes. Main highways are good, and there is a decent rail system that costs a lot to ride. There are lots of windmills generating power, including windmills set out in the ocean. The households pay high prices for that power and for heat.
The people are clean, hard working, and the population is homogeneous without large welfare populations of non-workers (so far). However, there are areas of concentrated poverty and social problems.
"I've been to Denmark. Prices and wages are set by the European Union."
Prices and wages aren't set by the European Union, wages are set by collective agreements made between unions and employers' organisations, like in much (maybe all?) of the Nordics and prices are set the same way they are anywhere - the need for profit weighed up against how much people are willing to pay.
I've been to Denmark. Prices and wages are set by the European Union.
American progressives love to hold up Denmark as a Socialist country where socialism really works. The problem with that is that Denmark is not a socialist country. The Danes I spoke with were offended by our president telling everyone that they are a socialist country. They have a parliamentary democracy as their form of government
They have socialized medicine and extremely high taxes. Main highways are good, and there is a decent rail system that costs a lot to ride. There are lots of windmills generating power, including windmills set out in the ocean. The households pay high prices for that power and for heat.
The people are clean, hard working, and the population is homogeneous without large welfare populations of non-workers (so far). However, there are areas of concentrated poverty and social problems.
This is what I'd like to get some clarity on.
How do people who are hardworking accept such extremely high tax rates on their income?
Can't you just pay for your education and healthcare instead of paying such high taxes?
I haven't been to Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway or Sweden. But I'm curious whether the people or governments of these countries are "true believers" in socioeconomic equality.
There is a segment of the U.S. population that routinely praises Nordic countries for their quality of life and social programs. So, I'm wondering whether these countries are the real deal or whether there is something else going on.
Also, do most of the citizens of these countries consider themselves to be part of a very large extended family of sorts?
It's much more complicated.
No, the citizens don't consider themselves to be a part of a very large extended family. There is, however, some sense of solidarity, that if the less fortunate are cared of the society as a whole is stronger. There is also a strong emphasis on social stability; when nobody has to commit crime to feed themselves or to get medicine for their children, there is less crime and the society is safer for everybody.
But, a lot of the support for the welfare state is also because for selfish reasons. "I don't pay high taxes so that the neighbour's brat will get to go to college for free, but so thay MY kids will get to go to college for free". And so on. The welfare state is a life-cycle thing. When you're a minor and student, you are a recipient of the system. When you're a working-age person you're a net payer. When you retire you're again a net beneficiary. Working people pay into the welfare state so that their kids will get the same benefits they got, and that their parents will have quality affordable healthcare. This is what many Americans fail to understand. You don't pay higher taxes so that "someone else" gets something. You pay for your own family, and the added social stabilty is just residual benefits. That's why you can let your 8-year old kid go to school on the subway alone.
Sadly that I have to admit that the solidarity aspect is eroding. The neoliberal mindset is taking over, and the poor should just eat cake, because "I have succeeded (because of the system) and you're all just lazy, my taxes should be lower because I need a new Lexus"
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