Cleveland intercity train expansions (Columbus, Cincinnati: transfer, live, dangerous)

[OyCrumbler]

I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are on train routes that include non-Ohio city services are reasonable given the president-elect's general preference for trains (the 3C plan was/is great, but probably pretty difficult to get up and running with current Ohio politics). Currently, the Amtrak trains that serve Cleveland are at hardly usable hours for most.

I think a few reasonable ones are:

A - expansion of the Pennsylvanian past Pittsburgh to at least Cleveland which the PA legislature has considered from time to time

B - a Detroit-DC route that follows the Capitol Limited up until Toledo where it then turns towards Detroit

C - additional Capitol Limited service run with actually usable hours for Cleveland

D - additional Lake Shore Limited service (or stagger and split the NYC and Boston legs into two fully separate runs) that actually has usable hours for Cleveland

E - a new Toronto-Cleveland service with Cleveland Airport as one of its starting bases as downtown Cleveland is difficult to make a turnaround in and going through Erie, Buffalo, and Niagara Falls with preclearance

How do you rank these in a post-covid environment in terms of being able to attract the greatest ridership in Cleveland and northeast Ohio? Are there other train services, aside from the 3C and other Ohio-only services, you think could work and/or rank better than the five above?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are on train routes that include non-Ohio city services are reasonable given the president-elect's general preference for trains (the 3C plan was/is great, but probably pretty difficult to get up and running with current Ohio politics). Currently, the Amtrak trains that serve Cleveland are at hardly usable hours for most.

I think a few reasonable ones are:

A - expansion of the Pennsylvanian past Pittsburgh to at least Cleveland which the PA legislature has considered from time to time

B - a Detroit-DC route that follows the Capitol Limited up until Toledo where it then turns towards Detroit

C - additional Capitol Limited service run with actually usable hours for Cleveland

D - additional Lake Shore Limited service (or stagger and split the NYC and Boston legs into two fully separate runs) that actually has usable hours for Cleveland

E - a new Toronto-Cleveland service with Cleveland Airport as one of its starting bases as downtown Cleveland is difficult to make a turnaround in and going through Erie, Buffalo, and Niagara Falls with preclearance

How do you rank these in a post-covid environment in terms of being able to attract the greatest ridership in Cleveland and northeast Ohio? Are there other train services, aside from the 3C and other Ohio-only services, you think could work and/or rank better than the five above?

I'm all for it. All of these expansions make sense.

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are on train routes that include non-Ohio city services are reasonable given the president-elect's general preference for trains (the 3C plan was/is great, but probably pretty difficult to get up and running with current Ohio politics). Currently, the Amtrak trains that serve Cleveland are at hardly usable hours for most.

I think a few reasonable ones are:

A - expansion of the Pennsylvanian past Pittsburgh to at least Cleveland which the PA legislature has considered from time to time

B - a Detroit-DC route that follows the Capitol Limited up until Toledo where it then turns towards Detroit

C - additional Capitol Limited service run with actually usable hours for Cleveland

D - additional Lake Shore Limited service (or stagger and split the NYC and Boston legs into two fully separate runs) that actually has usable hours for Cleveland

E - a new Toronto-Cleveland service with Cleveland Airport as one of its starting bases as downtown Cleveland is difficult to make a turnaround in and going through Erie, Buffalo, and Niagara Falls with preclearance

How do you rank these in a post-covid environment in terms of being able to attract the greatest ridership in Cleveland and northeast Ohio? Are there other train services, aside from the 3C and other Ohio-only services, you think could work and/or rank better than the five above?

I definitely support all of them that would be great. I was looking forward to the 3C plan, but thanks largely to our former Governor as well as suburban and downstate conservatism; it was shut that down. I wish they would move the Amtrak station somewhere else, it's too far off in the cut.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I'm all for it. All of these expansions make sense.

How would you rank them in order of how beneficial for Cleveland they'd be?

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

I definitely support all of them that would be great. I was looking forward to the 3C plan, but thanks largely to our former Governor as well as suburban and downstate conservatism; it was shut that down. I wish they would move the Amtrak station somewhere else, it's too far off in the cut.

Yea, I feel the same way about what happened to the 3C plan. It's wild that OH received federal funding and rejected it for a line that makes a lot of sense and was meant as a starter line allowing for improvements later on. It's even wilder that it was rejected after it turned out the operating speeds for this starter line on further study were significantly better than what was originally projected. It's hands-down the most reasonable train service to embark upon, but I left it out of the options since it's OH-only and it doesn't seem like the state government and populace would be that keen on moving this forward.

As for the Amtrak station, I kind of think that the location can work decently well with a few changes. Its good points are that it has a light rail connection and is near the waterfront attractions. The light rail service could be improved if the light rail service were better and improved. The bad part is that it doesn't flow into downtown proper. I think if there was the stomach for it, then extending the Cleveland Mall over the tracks and station with the extended Cleveland Mall acting as a roof of sorts for the rebuilt station and with interior elevators, escalators, and stairways in place can make it connect pretty well.

Anyhow, how would you rank the expansions listed?

[Dangerous-Boy]

Isn't ohio stopping faster passenger rail service from nyc to chicago?

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy

Isn't ohio stopping faster passenger rail service from nyc to chicago?

I haven't read or heard about it. Where did you get that info from?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

How would you rank them in order of how beneficial for Cleveland they'd be?

Anyhow, how would you rank the expansions listed?

Expanding the Pennsylvanian would be tops on my list. We should start out with regional service such as this. Getting some daytime, reasonably frequent service between Cleveland and Pittsburgh -- just 2 hours and a little over 120 miles apart, makes the most sense. For selfish purposes, I live mostly in Philly and part-time in Cleveland, my hometown, where I own property. I commute between the 2 cities regularly -- well, much moreso pre-COVID. I would love to take the train -- I've only done so twice, several summers ago on a lark where I had plenty of time.

Next would be expanded Capitol Limited service east (with more Pittsburgh service) to DC

then Capitol Limited west with a leg to Detroit.

Then the Cleveland (Hopkins) airport to Toronto via Erie, Buffalo and Niagara Falls route.

These would be my top picks in order.

[OyCrumbler]

A beautiful day for Cleveland:

https://www.brown.senate.gov/newsroo...ng-amtrak-ohio

The Federal Railroad Administration Chooses Four Ohio Routes as Priorities for Expansion; Brown Has Long Fought to Expand Amtrak Service in Ohio, Worked to Include Provisions in Infrastructure Bill to Make Expansion Possible

Two of those four routes are through Cleveland:
Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati, the 3C+D corridor
Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit
Chicago-Fort Wayne-Columbus-Pittsburgh, the Midwest Connect corridor via Lima, Kenton, Marysville, Columbus, Newark, Coshocton, Newcomerstown, Uhrichsville, and Steubenville in Ohio
Daily Cardinal Service, increasing service frequency from three days per week to daily on Amtrak’s current service to Cincinnati between New York City, Washington, DC and Chicago, IL via the States of Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, and Illinois.

The other two routes can be transferred to via the 3C+D corridor.

This will be a wonderful start and I hope that that these become just the beginning. Still really think that a Cleveland-Pittsburgh daytime route via Youngstown is a no-brainer and that a line that goes to Toronto via Buffalo and Niagara Falls is a great idea, but this at least gives some hope.

[TheProf]

^This is great news for Cleveland and Ohio. (OSU football games, alone, would pack trains from Cleveland and Cincy into C-Bus).

Just wondering, though, re the 3Cs+D corridor. My understanding is Amtrak won't fund intrastate services without that state's dedicated in-state funding which is, as far as I know, a non-starter in Indiana and Ohio.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by TheProf

^This is great news for Cleveland and Ohio. (OSU football games, alone, would pack trains from Cleveland and Cincy into C-Bus).

Just wondering, though, re the 3Cs+D corridor. My understanding is Amtrak won't fund intrastate services without that state's dedicated in-state funding which is, as far as I know, a non-starter in Indiana and Ohio.

Looks like Ohio needs to vote for representatives that will actually fund infrastructure then. This is pretty good motivation to get organized.