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Let’s be real, while Baltimore has a lot of technical wins for urban fabric, density, transit or architecture., almost nobody with no connections to either city would pick Baltimore to *live* in.
Quite possibly, food is comparable with Baltimore having better local cuisine, but Sac having a much greater mix of ethnic foods.
I would pick Baltimore for sure, and I don't have any connection to either. On visits thus far, Baltimore's top neighborhoods seem a lot better and I assume I'd be working remotely anyways.
I would pick Baltimore for sure, and I don't have any connection to either. On visits thus far, Baltimore's top neighborhoods seem a lot better and I assume I'd be working remotely anyways.
You are the "almost nobody" that the poster was referring to.
I would pick Baltimore for sure, and I don't have any connection to either. On visits thus far, Baltimore's top neighborhoods seem a lot better and I assume I'd be working remotely anyways.
As KodeBlue said You’re atypical, someone who hangs out on Urban enthusiasts forums. Also Being as you’re from New York I would think being 2.5 hours from New York would play a role in your selection.
You wouldn’t have to totally abandon your social circle.
Also while Baltimores *best* neighborhoods are great. It’s a grand total of like 3-4sq miles. While a big ol Donut hole of a Downtown in the Center.
Because Sacramento really lacks many “bad neighborhoods” it is almost effectively a larger city in practice for middle class professionals.
You’re short changing Sacramento, it’s quite literally so diverse. It has twice as many immigrants as Baltimore and a very established Communities of American born Latin and East Asian communities. And as a result its food scene is absurd. Even if it does not have deep seated regional dishes.
Also while Baltimores *best* neighborhoods are great. It’s a grand total of like 3-4sq miles. While a big ol Donut hole of a Downtown in the Center.
Try closer to 10-11 sq/mi. Every census tract in this yellow outline has increased in population year over year since the 2010 census. You can't go more than 5 blocks inside that area and not find consistently intact/healthy buildings, something getting rehabbed or new construction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Because Sacramento really lacks many “bad neighborhoods” it is almost effectively a larger city in practice for middle class professionals.
Sure, you can Sacramento is a larger city for "conventional middle class" living because it didn't experience half a century of white flight and red-lining policies that hollowed it out by 40%.
That still doesn't change the fact that most of Baltimore looks like this
Not "bombed-out-Gaza Strip" row homes or Federal Hill/Fells Point bars or glass skyscrapers on waterfront. No major city can function without a large healthy middle class tax base.
Sacramento is just the most diverse place in America. While there is probably in a literal sense something of everything in Baltimore’s region, it’s pretty easy to find fair amounts everything of Sacramento.
I had some great Ethiopian food in Baltimore so I am aware it’s more than Crab Cakes, Old Bay Seasoning and Orange Crushes
When I was in Baltimore we had some interesting Ethiopian food as well. We enjoyed the waterfront and the Ballpark downtown and some interesting parks. But Baltimore's train station sucked and their light rail was not that great. Lots of "scary" neighborhoods as well. Sacramento feels much safer, and our weather is much better.
Sacramento has a huge Russian and Ukraine population and they are quite prosperous and they have integrated very will into American culture without losing their languages. They first started immigrating here 25-30 years now. It's a very diverse population and the Black population is one of few California cites where it is increasing not decreasing like in SF.
There is alot to love about Sacramento; I get critical about Too many missed opportunities but it's still growing steadily with some urban infill and big projects in the works. Baltimore has had 125 years head start on Sac.
Last edited by Chimérique; 11-08-2023 at 10:37 PM..
When I was in Baltimore we had some interesting Ethiopian food as well. We enjoyed the waterfront and the Ballpark downtown and some interesting parks. But Baltimore's train station sucked and their light rail was not that great. Lots of "scary" neighborhoods as well. Sacramento feels much safer.
Sacramento has a huge Russian and Ukraine population and they are quite prosperous and they have integrated very will into American culture without losing their languages. They first started immigrating here 25-30 years now.
It is safer. But thats not taking any consideration into the nuances of what, where and why of each cities crime(s).
That being said, yes. Sacramento is definitely diverse especially in the context of it's Asian and Hispanic populations.
Baltimore has the county or Roland Park if you want expensive secluded SFH’s.
This site likes classic urbanism, something Baltimore has an almost limitless supply off. You don’t move to Baltimore for suburban style housing.
I suppose. But there are many (including myself) that don't appreciate having the possibility of being accosted on the way to obtaining products and services. I would feel much more at ease doing so in the vicinity of downtown Sacramento vs downtown Baltimore. The value of urbanism stops when the residents within the area no longer feel safe. I will take the safety of the Sacramento Metropolitan Area.
You are the "almost nobody" that the poster was referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
As KodeBlue said You’re atypical, someone who hangs out on Urban enthusiasts forums. Also Being as you’re from New York I would think being 2.5 hours from New York would play a role in your selection.
You wouldn’t have to totally abandon your social circle.
Also while Baltimores *best* neighborhoods are great. It’s a grand total of like 3-4sq miles. While a big ol Donut hole of a Downtown in the Center.
Because Sacramento really lacks many “bad neighborhoods” it is almost effectively a larger city in practice for middle class professionals.
Almost nobody would be something like a virtual 95% capture or along those lines, right? I'm pretty sure that's complete bunk, and I'll try to explain why.
Being along the northeast corridor and getting migration from there while still having access is absolutely, unequivocally one of the draws of Baltimore. Similarly, having access to the Bay Area is one of the draws of Sacramento and Sacramento does take a decent amount of outflow from there. I'm much more familiar with the Bay Area and NYC than I am with either of the cities in this topic, and I certainly know people who have respectively moved from the Bay Area to Sacramento as well as from NYC to Baltimore. A friend of mine who moved out to Sacramento seems to have made friends with people who are majority Bay Area transplants. It'd be ridiculous to not consider that, and that certainly is not atypical as there is such a thing as pricing pressures on one hand and trying to stay within a daytrip distance to friends or family.
Of course, it's not just the location of Baltimore by itself as my argument was strongly based on going to the best / better neighborhoods in Baltimore which is entirely reasonable for when you're asking someone with no real connections to voluntarily move to another city. If we're restricting ourselves to the city area and not the greater metropolitan area, then it's pretty reasonable that someone moving into Baltimore from elsewhere, lest they're moving in as a desperate refugee, would only be doing so with the means to live in a fairly good to great neighborhood. Who really picks up to move to the worst or just bad neighborhoods in Baltimore? That seems pretty unreasonable, doesn't it? Ask yourself, given the relatively high paying jobs available in the area for a variety of professions and the relatively cheap real estate, why would a middle class professional moving from *outside* of Baltimore end up not choosing to live out in one of the bad neighborhoods in Baltimore? It'd probably only make sense if they were going to try to work on flipping houses with a low amount of starting money, but that in itself is going there for a purpose that wouldn't be as achievable in Sacramento. Remember, Sacramento's cost of living is significantly higher than that of Baltimore and much of that is in *housing* costs while the commutable jobs from a Baltimore location for a middle class white collar professional are generally much better paying unless you were doing a supercommuter thing into the Bay Area. For Baltimore to DC-area jobs, unless it's well into the other side of the Washington metropolitan area, wouldn't generally be supercommuting, but one into the Bay Area from San Francisco absolutely will be.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-09-2023 at 08:00 AM..
Try closer to 10-11 sq/mi. Every census tract in this yellow outline has increased in population year over year since the 2010 census. You can't go more than 5 blocks inside that area and not find consistently intact/healthy buildings, something getting rehabbed or new construction.
Sure, you can Sacramento is a larger city for "conventional middle class" living because it didn't experience half a century of white flight and red-lining policies that hollowed it out by 40%.
That still doesn't change the fact that most of Baltimore looks like this
Not "bombed-out-Gaza Strip" row homes or Federal Hill/Fells Point bars or glass skyscrapers on waterfront. No major city can function without a large healthy middle class tax base.
That's a bit overly generous of an area, don't you think? There's a decent amount of industrial and parkland in there as well as some neighborhoods that I think are kind of on the cusp. Parts of downtown weren't too great the last few times I was there. I think it's very much some of the neighborhoods near downtown where Baltimore does well. I think splitting the difference between your estimate and btownboss is about fine. The last time I was in Baltimore was in spring of this year, so while I do think the summer did likely bring a lot of people into downtowns for fun, I'm not sure how much of a rebound there could have been in just several months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421
I suppose. But there are many (including myself) that don't appreciate having the possibility of being accosted on the way to obtaining products and services. I would feel much more at ease doing so in the vicinity of downtown Sacramento vs downtown Baltimore. The value of urbanism stops when the residents within the area no longer feel safe. I will take the safety of the Sacramento Metropolitan Area.
I don't think downtown is where Baltimore shines at the moment except for a few tourist areas whereas it is where Sacramento does alongside Midtown. However, some neighborhoods part of greater downtown or near downtown are fantastic.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-09-2023 at 08:22 AM..
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