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The topic is asking if the church has been unwelcoming or otherwise hurtful, not if it has inspired anyone to good works or improved character or asked anything personally difficult of them. I don't know why people would bother attending church if they didn't think there was some moral elevation to be had. What they don't want is to be met with cliquishness or otherizing or to be lied to, etc.
Sure, that's fair. However, you know as well as I do that "unwelcoming" and "hurtful" are often used as code words for blame shifting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Also you cannot "force" people to behave in certain ways. You can challenge or inspire them to change voluntarily, but if it's not voluntary then it's not genuine; or at best it is doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
Well, I didn't really mean "force" like that...
However; good behavior, even if done involuntarily or with imperfect motives is still objectively preferable to bad behavior.
It wasn't a wafer. The fact that you now call it a "wafer" vindicates the Priest. He was right to refuse it to you.
I'm calling it what it is called in human society. In religious terms, it is the Body of Christ. If I was in a conversation with someone describing how a Church does communion, I would describe it in simple terms: The priest or pastor gives you the wafer or bread, and you take it and eat it remembering Christ and being fully aware of your sins. In religious context, we call it the Body of Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424
I would have brought my own wafer!
That would be a bit insulting to both the Church and to Jesus. I view the wafer as sacred. Anyone who is baptized into the Christian faith should be able to eat the wafer from someone who is authorized to distribute it.
Yep, I went back and visited a church that I had attended on a regular basis and I caught a lot of stink eye just cause I wasn’t wearing the official uniform of a white shirt, tie and slacks. That judgmental mentality gets old.
I'm calling it what it is called in human society. In religious terms, it is the Body of Christ. If I was in a conversation with someone describing how a Church does communion, I would describe it in simple terms: The priest or pastor gives you the wafer or bread, and you take it and eat it remembering Christ and being fully aware of your sins. In religious context, we call it the Body of Christ.
That would be a bit insulting to both the Church and to Jesus. I view the wafer as sacred. Anyone who is baptized into the Christian faith should be able to eat the wafer from someone who is authorized to distribute it.
But this is a whole nother topic.
Actually, it's called the element, or host. It's not a "wafer".
THE church, as in the Christian Church, has not hurt me. personally.
A long time ago, 22 years ago, to be exact, I was hurt by some Charismatics within the Lutheran church. At the time, I was very involved with the church, on two committees and I was serving on church counsel. I taught at vacation bible school, and I subbed in Sunday School. I also taught youth liturgical dance. I practically lived at the place.
This is not a conversation about works or salvation. It's just to say I was not a casual member. I was deeply involved with the ministry of the church.
There were weekly bible studies, and because a few of several couples who had become Charismatic and were attending services at a Charismatic Episcopalian church that was supposedly having a "revival". As the people I knew understood it, revival is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that occurs with signs, such as spontaneous speaking in tongues, healing and "words of knowledge" basically messages from God.
At the time I was experiencing secondary infertility - inability to conceive after successfully carrying a pregnancy to term. I was taking infertility medication, which made me very emotional. It was hard seeing other women give birth to child #2, #3 and even four and hear them telling me that "I should be happy with my son". I was THRILLED with my son! I loved him and I had an easy pregnancy, at felt certain that I'd have at least one other child.
A few of the people who were involved with attending these charismatic churches invited me to attend the weeknight services with them. I began attending with mixed emotions, hoping that a Divine healing would occur, and I'd be blessed with a baby - or perhaps triplets!
After about the third or fourth Wednesday Night Praise and Healing service, while driving home, suddenly one of the women from my church declared that she had a "Word" from the Lord about me. Her word of Knowlege was that I was only meant to have one child. She ended her proclamation with "Thus saith the Lord". Suddenly, she was speaking in King James English.
I was very hurt that she decided to announce her "word of knowledge" to a carful of my peers. She was not a close friend of mine at all.
I was very hurt by her actions. I did confront her with it. I really felt that she said it as she did because she wanted in some way to hurt me.
I am still not sure why. She was super spiritual and more interested in showing off her gifts, than in the feelings of others.
I was so hurt that I couldn't attend church there any longer. Also, I thought that this whole visiting a very atypical charismatic church with the enthusiasm of this group of young mothers, was going too far for me.
She was not delivering this "message from God" from a place of love.
1 Corinthians 13 - If I speak with the tongues of angels, but I do not have love, I am only a clanging cymbal
If I have the gift of prophesy and...I do not have love, I am nothing".
Do you consider your actions as described above to be noble or worthy of emulation?
You reject the idea that any real spiritual authority exists outside and above yourself. That's your choice, but there's nothing 'Christian' about that.
All you're doing is making an idol of yourself and bowing down before it. Seems pointless and self-defeating, but you do you.
All I did was stand up to someone who believed that they had some authority which they did not have.
It wasn't a wafer. The fact that you now call it a "wafer" vindicates the Priest. He was right to refuse it to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
I'm calling it what it is called in human society. In religious terms, it is the Body of Christ. If I was in a conversation with someone describing how a Church does communion, I would describe it in simple terms: The priest or pastor gives you the wafer or bread, and you take it and eat it remembering Christ and being fully aware of your sins. In religious context, we call it the Body of Christ.
You have described the Protestant concept of Communion.
In the Catholic Church, it is not a wafer or bread. It is the Real and True Body and Blood of Christ. Unless you believe that at the words of consecration, the bread ceases to exist and actually becomes Christ Himself, you are not permitted to receive Communion in the Catholic Church.
All I did was stand up to someone who believed that they had some authority which they did not have.
But you don't believe that anyone outside yourself has spiritual authority, do you?
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