Chaos on the streets

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

For public overdoses in broad daylight?

Keep dreaming. I haven’t seen that anywhere else

You may not have happened to have been in those cities.

(In 2020)...."fentanyl use rose sharply on the West Coast. Despite nearly a decade of advance notice from the fentanyl crisis in the East, the region failed to prepare. As in other Western states, overdose rates in Oregon soared — from among the lowest in the country to nearly reaching the national average in 2022. Although data suggest that rates of drug use in Oregon have remained fairly stable in recent years, fentanyl makes for a much deadlier drug supply. At the same time, homelessness in Oregon has risen rapidly. As more people live outside, more drug use that used to occur behind closed doors now happens in plain sight.

Public drug use and streets full of tents are distressing for many Oregonians. They also provide images that are easily exploited by mainstream media and politicians to stoke public fears.

With the nation’s housing and overdose crises worse than ever, what’s happening in Oregon is not unique. Similar tensions between scientific approaches to addiction and concerns about homelessness and public drug use are playing out in San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston and other cities. Our task is to resist the temptation to cave to panic and instead commit to evidence-backed solutions."

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...gs-measure-110

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

You may not have happened to have been in those cities.

(In 2020)...."fentanyl use rose sharply on the West Coast. Despite nearly a decade of advance notice from the fentanyl crisis in the East, the region failed to prepare. As in other Western states, overdose rates in Oregon soared — from among the lowest in the country to nearly reaching the national average in 2022. Although data suggest that rates of drug use in Oregon have remained fairly stable in recent years, fentanyl makes for a much deadlier drug supply. At the same time, homelessness in Oregon has risen rapidly. As more people live outside, more drug use that used to occur behind closed doors now happens in plain sight.

Public drug use and streets full of tents are distressing for many Oregonians. They also provide images that are easily exploited by mainstream media and politicians to stoke public fears.

With the nation’s housing and overdose crises worse than ever, what’s happening in Oregon is not unique. Similar tensions between scientific approaches to addiction and concerns about homelessness and public drug use are playing out in San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston and other cities. Our task is to resist the temptation to cave to panic and instead commit to evidence-backed solutions."

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...gs-measure-110

Unfortunately a lot of this might be tied with with the ninth district court ruling in this area of the country that basically allows homeless people to camp in any public place they see fit. In the eastern part of the country for example the police can still move homeless people out of parks if they’re being a nuisance. The fact that District Attorneys in many areas on the west coast don’t prosecute drug use is also problematic.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Been a minute since I've been on the local trolley. Took it to see my son graduate from SDSU. My mind was blown seeing the number of homeless in the San Diego river shed area you can see from the trolley the entire 20 miles. Thousands. Unreal.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

In the eastern part of the country for example the police can still move homeless people out of parks if they’re being a nuisance. The fact that District Attorneys in many areas on the west coast don’t prosecute drug use is also problematic.

Prosecuting drug use hasn't worked.

An example, from San Francisco: "Cristine Soto DeBerry, executive director of the progressive Prosecutors Alliance of California and former chief of staff to San Francisco DAs George Gascón and Chesa Boudin, believes that San Francisco changed its tactic because the old enforcement model failed.

She says San Francisco’s approach to drugs has evolved and fluctuated over time—as we’re seeing right now—but the trend has been away from prosecuting drug use.

“I think, in our clearest moments in San Francisco, it’s because we understand that criminal consequences haven’t been effective in solving the health challenge of drug addiction,” Soto DeBerry said.

Because drug possession can still be punished by a year in prison, she believes that the law and the different propositions aren’t obstacles to prosecuting drug crimes. Instead, she said 50 years of experience have shown cities can’t prosecute their way out of an addiction problem.

That’s not to say the criminal justice system has no role.

“I think police can be helpful in getting people into treatment and into breaking up activity on the street when it's happening and gets too aggressive or too widespread. I think they have a role there,” Soto DeBerry said. “What I think is not as effective as suggesting that there should be prosecution that results in a prison sentence and, in some sense, that that will solve the problem.”

...To her, the problem in San Francisco is not too much harm reduction; it’s not enough. She believes the city needs to follow the approach of Portugal..."

https://sfstandard.com/2023/06/12/wh...open-drug-use/

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Prosecuting drug use hasn't worked.

An example, from San Francisco: "Cristine Soto DeBerry, executive director of the progressive Prosecutors Alliance of California and former chief of staff to San Francisco DAs George Gascón and Chesa Boudin, believes that San Francisco changed its tactic because the old enforcement model failed.

She says San Francisco’s approach to drugs has evolved and fluctuated over time—as we’re seeing right now—but the trend has been away from prosecuting drug use.

“I think, in our clearest moments in San Francisco, it’s because we understand that criminal consequences haven’t been effective in solving the health challenge of drug addiction,” Soto DeBerry said.

Because drug possession can still be punished by a year in prison, she believes that the law and the different propositions aren’t obstacles to prosecuting drug crimes. Instead, she said 50 years of experience have shown cities can’t prosecute their way out of an addiction problem.

That’s not to say the criminal justice system has no role.

“I think police can be helpful in getting people into treatment and into breaking up activity on the street when it's happening and gets too aggressive or too widespread. I think they have a role there,” Soto DeBerry said. “What I think is not as effective as suggesting that there should be prosecution that results in a prison sentence and, in some sense, that that will solve the problem.”

...To her, the problem in San Francisco is not too much harm reduction; it’s not enough. She believes the city needs to follow the approach of Portugal..."

https://sfstandard.com/2023/06/12/wh...open-drug-use/

Prosecuting IV drug use of things like heroin and methamphetamine has worked to a degree. Softer drugs like marijuana or psilocybin mushrooms cause less harm for the users, no physical withdrawals and argument can be made for legalization. A lot of these junkies physically addicted to hard drugs resort to brazen theft in order to get money for more drugs which is the main problem. Used syringes is another.

If you want a control group for full drug decriminalization check out Portland, OR before and after drug decriminalization. Oregon tried decriminalization and ultimately switched back in the last year. The consequences of having no consequences for drugs like fentanyl are too high. Throwing people in jail or mandatory rehab for a month for hard drug use will in fact sober them up, and has been shown to be successful and reduce use. The real issue is criminal records prevent hiring. Allowing ex-addicts to expunge
their records after a year of sobriety might be a better solution to prevent recividism.

[Igor Blevin]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

Well, first, you have no idea what they were on, they could have been drunk, ketamine or whatnot.

Second, drug overdoses in general are way higher in other states (per capita). All drug overdoses are part of the problem. Fentanyl is highlighted because use and deaths have been on a steep rise.

But for the states with the most drug deaths per capita, the top are:

West Virginia
DC
Tennessee
Louisiana
Kentucky


The lowest are:

Nebraska
Iowa
Texas
North Dakota
Hawaii

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ose-in-the-us/

It's for 2021, but I don't think things have changed dramatically. West Virginia has had it's problem for a very long time.

Top 10 city metropolitan areas for per-capita drug overdose deaths. Death rates are per 100,000 people:

1. Baltimore City, Maryland: 174.1
2. Nashville, Tennessee: 101.5
3. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: 88.5
4. Indianapolis, Indiana: 84.1
5. Washington, D.C.: 77.9
6. Louisville, Kentucky: 77.6
7. San Francisco County, California: 72.9
8. Milwaukee, Wisconsin: 72.6
9. Albuquerque, New Mexico: 68.8
0. Camden, New Jersey: 67.8


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/opioi...rnia%3A%2072.9

[Igor Blevin]

There was a time when you would not have expected an expensive beach front hotel to have this kind of problem. Bums and hobos were corralled into the areas where bums belonged.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

Throwing people in jail or mandatory rehab for a month for hard drug use will in fact sober them up, and has been shown to be successful and reduce use.

Do you have a link to any evidence of this?

[CA4Now]

GRASS VALLEY, Calif. — Here in the rugged foothills of California’s Sierra Nevada, the streets aren’t littered with needles, and dealers aren’t hustling drugs on the corner.

But meth is almost as easy to come by as a hazy IPA or locally grown weed.

Quinn Coburn knows the lifestyle well. He has used meth for most of his adult life and has done five stints in jail for dealing marijuana, methamphetamine and heroin. Coburn, 56, wants to get sober for good, and he says an experimental program through Medi-Cal, the state’s Medicaid program for low-income people, is helping.

As part of an innovative approach called “contingency management,” Coburn provides a urine sample and gets paid for it — as long as it is clean of stimulants.

In the coming fiscal year, the state is expected to allocate $61 million to the experiment, which targets addiction to stimulants such as meth and cocaine. It is part of a broader Medi-Cal initiative called CalAIM, which provides social and behavioral health services, including addiction treatment, to some of the state’s sickest and most vulnerable patients.

Since April 2023, 19 counties have enrolled a total of about 2,700 patients, including Coburn, according to the state Department of Health Care Services. In Los Angeles County, public health officials cited contingency management as one of the only effective ways to treat stimulant use disorder. Los Angeles has 42 participating providers and has served 1,566 people — both the most of any county, the department said.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...r-to-get-sober

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Do you have a link to any evidence of this?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2681083/

Lots of jails now have drug treatment programs.

In addition, Oregon voters repealing their decriminalized drug experiment seems to have some merit no?