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Because millennials watched companies treacherously lay off mass numbers of people (some being 20 year employees who knew the job). This was not an isolated case of some company going bankrupt, it is done routinely to protect share holders profits.
Companies can get away with this behavior .... for now until experienced people finally retire for real and say stop calling me. Lay offs, lack of workers rights and at will employment have caused this. Why should millennials be loyal when they watched mass lay offs harm families.
You think 4K is expensive, wait until experienced people want 6 figures net up front to move for your company. Millennials are being forced to move god knows where and when people start building leverage, 4K is going to look like the price of a happy meal. Employers have built a highly antagonistic market that is dog eat dog but which dog that is getting eaten changes over time and millennials will remember what corporate America forced them into.
Not to mention they watched their parents get raked over the coals in corporate America.
And of course, the H1Bs never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever lie on their resumes. Pinky swear! Only Americans lie on their resumes.
at least that's what the usual suspects tell the employers.
In one way they are right. But the reason is, the employees have changed their attitude and loyalty to employers, and they are the ones that have caused the employers to crack down and look for the Purple Squirrels. It costs them so much money to keep hiring and training people who just want to use them to get the next job, they have taken the protective attitude they are taking, and are really looking for Purple Squirrels to look for lowering their costs to stay in business.
Yet you conveniently forget the record profits, lay offs, outsourced manufacturing and labor etc.
As a trader I guess you would also say 2008 was caused by people who didnt pay their dues. The companies just used it to make money!!!
That does not fit the reality of the job market in the USA. You must not live in the USA.
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Funny how the more hours I work, the more I study, and the more effort I put in, the 'luckier' I get.
So you do admit you got lucky. I put in hours, I study, and I put in effort and don't have luck and oh, I got different results. And so do others who do the same things you say you did, who don't have luck.
Rather than denying the catch-22, how about actually providing a solution instead of looking down on people who didn't have the luck you had?
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There are people who don't understand the job market, and people looking for excuses.
I don't understand the catch-22 and why there are no entry level jobs that require no experience (except sales)
But you're the wrong person to ask the answer to this, you don't believe the catch-22 exists.
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Do you mean entry level as in someone's first job ever, entry level as in entry level for a specific profession, or entry level as in entry level for a specific job in a profession?
I mean "entry level" as "first job outside of college/university that someone studied to get. You know, someone wanted to become a X. X requires a degree with a major in A. So they study A and graduate and get told "no job for you, you have no experience."
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I hope you don't actually think putting in effort and proving your worth is a cliche.
You didn't address my point. Rather, you just pooh-pooed my point and acted like it didn't exist, preferring to just show zero empathy.
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The problem with your example is people ARE getting jobs in cybersecurity with no experience.
Not in the USA.
I've thought about going back to school a 4th time to do a career change into cybersecurity. But as long as there are no cybersecurity jobs that require no experience, why should I bother?
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If you want experience though, take a job as a helpdesk tech, network admin, etc. That's related experience.
Employers are looking for experience in cybersecurity, not experience in IT in general. As I said, they're not going to say "Hey you! You fixed that printer jam. I want to hire you to our cybersecurity team!"
We have to look at certain facts of the job world. If you apply or a corporate job, the odds of you getting it are very small.
A great list of facts.
I'll add to that:
Applicant Tracking Systems filter out 75% of people - largest cause is because they didn't keyword spam their resume, or ATS optimize their resumes. Both can be solved by adding tons of keywords to their job positions. And there are free ATS opmizing websites out there that can help fix the lack of optimization. These resumes go into a black hole and no human being ever sees them.
Of the 25% who survive this, the recruiters spend 6 seconds per resume. Six seconds. This is not enough time to make a logical, reasonable This means knee jerk judgments and stereotyping is done.
Then let's talk about all the workers being rejected for being "overqualified" - lots of stereotyping there.
We have articles hyping millenials into the stratosphere. How many times have you been told that Millenials will be 75% of the workforce by 2020 or 2025? That is ridiculous and refuted here.
So, since Millenials will pretty be the only choice (through the above hype), older workers get discriminated against. Hey, they're going to be dead/retired in a few years, so why bother hiring them? They'll actually expect decent pay and reasonable working conditions.
In many tech companies, visa holders constitute a huge percentage of the workers - Silicon Valley has 75% visa workers. Americans need not apply. We've seen companies like Disney, Cengage Learning, etc., lay off their entire IT departments and replace them with H1B visa holders.
And then let's talk about STEM being hyped into the stratosphere as the "be all and end all" best chance at getting a decent paying job.
STEM workers get jobs in non-STEM areas because they actually can earn more elsewhere.
In total, more than 11 million employees who have graduated with STEM-related degrees have chosen to work in occupations that do not require training in math, science, engineering or technology. Were there an actual shortage of labor for STEM jobs, it’s highly unlikely that figure would be so high. To compete for workers to fill STEM jobs, employers would bid up wages and offer such employees other incentives to work for their companies. But that’s not been the case.
Have you never heard the expression "the harder you work, the luckier you get" before?
I'd ask what I ask anyone who is struggling to get hired: what could someone personally do better to improve their chances of being hired, and what did they do wrong in interviews? If someone can't answer those questions, that's a big part of their problem. Personally, if I'm rejected when applying for a job, the first thing I do is figure out what I did wrong, and what I could have improved to get hired. Blaming some external factor never helped anyone improve, and never helped anyone get hired.
There is no catch-22. The job market at the moment is the best it's been in decades. "Entry level" means several very different things. Take time to learn the job market before calling it broken.
Have you never heard the expression "the harder you work, the luckier you get" before?
I'd ask what I ask anyone who is struggling to get hired: what could someone personally do better to improve their chances of being hired, and what did they do wrong in interviews? If someone can't answer those questions, that's a big part of their problem. Personally, if I'm rejected when applying for a job, the first thing I do is figure out what I did wrong, and what I could have improved to get hired. Blaming some external factor never helped anyone improve, and never helped anyone get hired.
There is no catch-22. The job market at the moment is the best it's been in decades. "Entry level" means several very different things. Take time to learn the job market before calling it broken.
I agree with always improving yourself, building new skills and certs but there is no way to know for sure why you didn’t get a job. You could go back and think gee I probably need to get cert B .... then you go to another interview and they secretly want cert A
And getting new certs and skills that actually have value are very difficult and time consuming to complete.
At the end of the day you don’t know why you didn’t get a job, you can speculate but you don’t really know why.
So if your working on new certs and progressing then that’s all you can do.
Have you never heard the expression "the harder you work, the luckier you get" before?
Yes. It does not reflect reality. Plenty of people do everything right and wind up in bad situations.
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I'd ask what I ask anyone who is struggling to get hired: what could someone personally do better to improve their chances of being hired, and what did they do wrong in interviews?
You're assuming that one gets the interview. When one has no experience, they don't get the interview. Their resume is ignored.
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There is no catch-22.
That does not reflect reality in the USA. Maybe in your part of the world, that may be true, but not in the USA.
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The job market at the moment is the best it's been in decades.
False. We have a labor participation rate that's barely off the lows. That means lots of people CANNOT find a job. There are zero entry level jobs that require no experience. Employers refuse to train and don't want to hire anyone who has no experience.
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"Entry level" means several very different things.
Don't confuse Mcjobs with entry level jobs. Seems you confuse the two.
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Take time to learn the job market before calling it broken.
You're talking to someone who attempted three career changes. I know the job market
It is you who thinks the catch-22 doesn't exist. Apparently you've never been a recent grad or career changer in today's job market.
I've explained different types of jobs people call 'entry level'. None were 'McJobs'. If your resume is getting ignored, what's wrong with it? I assume each resume is tailored to each company and job that is applied to, what did career counselors and personal friends say when they reviewed those resumes that weren't picked? Again, blaming some external factor never helped anyone improve, and never helped anyone get hired.
What networking is being done? Blindly submitting resumes is a fairly poor job search strategy. Do you want help finding a job here, or do you want validation of your opinions?
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Originally Posted by pittsflyer
I agree with always improving yourself, building new skills and certs but there is no way to know for sure why you didn’t get a job. You could go back and think gee I probably need to get cert B .... then you go to another interview and they secretly want cert A
And getting new certs and skills that actually have value are very difficult and time consuming to complete.
At the end of the day you don’t know why you didn’t get a job, you can speculate but you don’t really know why.
So if your working on new certs and progressing then that’s all you can do.
I'm not talking about certs. I'm talking about thinking about how you failed to respond to questions in the interview, or how you failed to tailor your resume to that particular company, etc.
The more you focus on what you could have done better, how you could have acted better, what you could have said or done differently, the better your next interview will go. Personally, after each interview I review the notes I took during it, and spend time thinking through what I could have done different.
After I explained to him how I broke out of his so-called catch-22, he called it random luck as well.
I even ended up using the same language @Lekrii used:
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"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more of it I seem to have."
-Thomas Jefferson?
Bobsell's mind is already made up. No point in having this discussion with him.
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