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Well, is it THAT big a deal to go to one more meeting and fulfill the "requirement"? But no more...he is NOT your boss until he's your boss.
I think it's a foolhardy approach. What does it gain? Being stubborn now will just make George relish his authority more later. Reminds me of a very similar situation I had at my first professional job. Coworker and I worked great together until the boss's position came up for grabs. We were both up for it. We had a disagreement over who needed to do some work. I refused to do it because I felt it was her responsibility. The second she got the boss's job, she walked over to my desk, plopped that same work down it, and said, in the most demeaning way, that I'd be doing all of that work from now on, and that if I didn't like it I could look for work elsewhere. And that attitude continued until I did just that.
Thanks again for all the input! I really appreciate others’ viewpoint on this.
A couple of clarifications: my current supervisor is not retiring until Jan 2017. My probation is up next week. My supervisor knows that my qualifications exceed the position I’m in. They offered (and I accepted) the lower position because they wanted my skills and experience knowing that eventually there would be opportunity for me to move up. When the supervisor position is advertised, I will have been OFF probation for at least 6 months(depending on when they advertise it).
While George is not my direct supervisor, he is superior to me based on his years here and his position (his title is more senior to mine). George also was part of the interview process, and apparently does have someinput on my reviews. So, yes, to some extent, I do need to listen to him.
The meetings are generic, information meetings; board meetings. I will likely attend many of them over the course of my time here. Some are held in the mornings, and some are held in the evenings (after work hours). I disagree (and my supervisor confirmed) that these are critical meetings to doing my day to day job. But George apparently has a bee in his bonnet.
There isn’t a possibility of transferring to another department and I really wouldn’t want to. I like it here and would like to stay here ‘til retirement.
I don’t want to make a big deal of this because, according to our supervisor, it’s not a big deal. I just can’t figure out George’s issue. He KNOWS this isn’t required, yet he still pushes it. The supervisor KNOWS George is a very detail oriented (the supervisor said his strength is “minutia”, LOL).
In the end it’s not a big deal but I was interested in hearing thoughts because, as I mentioned, George has led me down more than one primrose path here. No one could say the things he tells me to do aren’t of some value. They would be more valuable to someone who is less experienced, but they are more of a waste of time for someone with more than 20 years of experience. And I get that George may be testing me and I guess I’m getting a little tired of that too. But that is my shortcoming.
I don’t know why this is bothering me (or why I’m allowingit to bother me) but it is.
I started this job almost 6 months ago. I love the job, love my co-workers, feel that I’ve really found “my spot”. My co-workers (and bosses) seem to feel the same way. My short-term probationary reviews have been good. I’ve taken constructive criticism and learned from it. Based on things that have happened, I believe I have impressed people and am not worried at all about the job.
Our direct supervisor is going to retire in January and several people (including his admin assistant) have encouraged me to apply for the job even though there is another person who is almost seen as a “shoe-in”. It’s this “shoe-in” person I’m having a little problem with and I’m looking for advice.
The “shoe-in”, we’ll call him George. George and I get along mostly well. Sometimes he can be a little too nit-picky about things (I’m not the only one who thinks this) but he is a good guy and intelligent. Maybe a little too cautious, but who knows what experience he has had to make him that way.
Lately he’s been pestering me about going to these specific meetings. George told me I needed to go to at least two of them before I could get off probation. I believed him. My probation is up next week. About two weeks ago, I was joking with the supervisor and another person how I had to attend two of these meetings. They gave me a weird look and asked who told you that? I told them George told me. The supervisor said, perfectly clearly, that no, attending a minimum number of those meetings was not required. I told George that the supervisor told me it was not required his response was that he was only repeating what he was told.
Today, George comes into my office and again tells me that I need to attend another of these meetings to meet the requirements of the probation. I told him that he had been ill-informed because I had already talked to the supervisor about this issue. Again he reiterates that he’s only repeating what he’s been told.
Basically this isn’t the only thing George has “lied” to me about. The thing is, I’m not sure what he is hoping to accomplish by saying things then either denying them, just generally giving me incorrect information, or sending me on unnecessary goose chases. I’m not sure if I’m being dense and missing something or if he’s really that scatterbrained. I don’t believe his intent is to sabotage me in any way and in some ways he may even think he’s helping me.
I feel like I’m missing some big flashing neon sign. Any objective input?
I don't know that I would worry too much about his intent. You said he is cautious and it could be as simple as him wanting to get you overly prepared. I highly doubt that you attending these meetings is sabotage or could hurt you in any way.
It also sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and can maneuver around the work culture. Instead of challenges George, just smile and nod and then go run it by your supervisor. This doesn't need to be made an issue.
Did you ask George to tell you who told him this or where he saw it written down? Did you say, well, I'll let (my supervisor) know that you're under the impression that there are a certain number of required meetings and have him get back with you to sort it out as he told me that there was no minimum requirement.
Lets look at it, after having spent my entire life in the business world, how it is very possible going with George.
1: A management job is coming up. Due to your 20 years of experience you are qualified for the job. George wants it, and is trying to get you taking suggestions and orders from him, setting him up as your superior and is letting you know he is going to get the promotion, and is getting you in line. A way of keeping you from applying for the job.
2: Even if you are newer to the company there is no reason not to apply for the job, with 20 years experience. The company hired you at a position below what you are capable of doing, and they may have had you in mind for the upcoming promotion.
I know how that works, as I have been moved up very rapidly several times over other people.
Example: I was transferred from Hawaii at the big naval air transport squadron, back to Alameda California. When I got there, I found I was to replace a retiring Chief Petty Officer as the Air Terminal Chief. Meaning in charge of the operation of the air terminal covering both passengers and cargo for the air transport squadron. I was to report for duty the following day which was a retiring chief's last day in the Navy. I was only an E-4 Third Class Petty Officer not an E-7 like the chief I was replacing was. My two section leaders one in charge of cargo, and on in charge of passengers were an E-5 and E-6 both out ranking me. I stayed there the next 2 years before my enlistment was up (only joined when draft notice for the army was in the post office box), at the same job. I was better qualified than the two section leaders, and I got the job starting day one on the job. They had been looking for a Chief all over the west coast to take the job, and could not find one. I was selected by the Navy Bureau of Personnel in Washington D.C. for the job as I was the only qualified person available in 1953.
Putting an E-4 into a job for a E-7 over people with higher ratings in charge is not a normal way for the Navy to operate. There is a place on the plan of the day (who is in charge of each department as part of the POD) where they list each major position and who is in charge each day, and it would show Air Terminal Chief---"my name" AB4. I would always be the only one below a Navy Chief holding a chief's position.
Throughout my working career, I kept getting very rapid promotions as high as Division Sales Manager over the states west of the Mississippi river to the coast. I would be brought in, and within a few days or weeks would be promoted as soon as I was familiar with the operation.
There is a very good chance, that is why you were hired for a lower spot than you are qualified for. If you have the best qualifications and are better with people, you may very well be expected to apply for the position, and it may already be yours if you want it. George may know this and is trying to find ways to sabotage you, thinking he will get it if you screw something up and don't apply.
I can tell you from personal experience that if you have the qualifications and experience for the management position you should go for it. A good company wants to promote the best qualified person, regardless of how long you have been with the company.
I don’t know why this is bothering me (or why I’m allowingit to bother me) but it is.
I started this job almost 6 months ago. I love the job, love my co-workers, feel that I’ve really found “my spot”. My co-workers (and bosses) seem to feel the same way. My short-term probationary reviews have been good. I’ve taken constructive criticism and learned from it. Based on things that have happened, I believe I have impressed people and am not worried at all about the job.
Our direct supervisor is going to retire in January and several people (including his admin assistant) have encouraged me to apply for the job even though there is another person who is almost seen as a “shoe-in”. It’s this “shoe-in” person I’m having a little problem with and I’m looking for advice.
The “shoe-in”, we’ll call him George. George and I get along mostly well. Sometimes he can be a little too nit-picky about things (I’m not the only one who thinks this) but he is a good guy and intelligent. Maybe a little too cautious, but who knows what experience he has had to make him that way.
Lately he’s been pestering me about going to these specific meetings. George told me I needed to go to at least two of them before I could get off probation. I believed him. My probation is up next week. About two weeks ago, I was joking with the supervisor and another person how I had to attend two of these meetings. They gave me a weird look and asked who told you that? I told them George told me. The supervisor said, perfectly clearly, that no, attending a minimum number of those meetings was not required. I told George that the supervisor told me it was not required his response was that he was only repeating what he was told.
Today, George comes into my office and again tells me that I need to attend another of these meetings to meet the requirements of the probation. I told him that he had been ill-informed because I had already talked to the supervisor about this issue. Again he reiterates that he’s only repeating what he’s been told.
Basically this isn’t the only thing George has “lied” to me about. The thing is, I’m not sure what he is hoping to accomplish by saying things then either denying them, just generally giving me incorrect information, or sending me on unnecessary goose chases. I’m not sure if I’m being dense and missing something or if he’s really that scatterbrained. I don’t believe his intent is to sabotage me in any way and in some ways he may even think he’s helping me.
I feel like I’m missing some big flashing neon sign. Any objective input?
George is a self-proclaimed little general. He thinks he is in charge and can tell others what to do. He's wrong, and he is a liar. I would ignore anything he tells you and just humor him. If he says you need to go to a meeting, and repeats this is what he was told, tell him that's not what your supervisor directed you to do. I would continue to tell your supervisor that George does this each time and what he said, because otherwise he is going to go into the supervisor's office and have conversations like this:
George: I was talking with lunetunelover, and shared some thoughts about the XYZ meetings.
Supervisor: OK
George: Lunetunelover felt it would be best to attend them and I agreed, and asked lunetunelover to report back to us about the meetings to create a summary of them. I'll let you know.
Supervisor: OK. Thanks for telling me.
And before you know it, either the meetings or some other BS you are going to be saddled with some other tasks you don't want to do or need to do, because George is going to make it look like it was your idea or you even asked for XYZ meetings or some other tasks. And then you are going to start being blamed for not doing something because George told your supervisor or anyone else naïve enough to listen to him that you are responsible for something you aren't and likely don't even know about.
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what his motives are for doing this, what you have to do is be proactive and make sure he doesn't do anything that's damaging to you personally in the workplace.
I'm run across co-workers like this over the years, and did what I'm advising you to do. Those Georges ended up getting moved out of our group or fired from the company.
George and I get along pretty well. We do kinda give each other a hard time sometimes, but that's the office environment. I'm sure I irritate him sometimes, just like he does me.
My husband is convinced George is just giving me a hard time. And I'm just not sure if I'm not reading his sarcasm correctly, or if there is something else.
I'm going to just let it go, more or less. I will remind him that our supervisor told me I don't need to attend those meetings to meet probation requirements. But other than that, just play it cool.
As a newer employee, I'm aware that I have to be careful with perceptions. At the same time I need to stand up for myself and set boundaries. This is just a weird experience for me.
I think your husband is under estimating the importance of this, because many husbands don't regard what their wives do on the job as being a problem and think they are being dramatic. However, I doubt your husband would put up with this BS in the work place. Someone repeatedly telling you that you need to do something at work who isn't your supervisor or assigned mentor is totally out of line. You already confirmed that by talking to your supervisor. Even when you told George the truth he still repeated that's what he has been told. Honestly, who cares what he has been told, he's not in charge. Don't just ignore this.
If this guy ends up being your supervisor when the current one retires, I'd update the resume and look for another job, because this George is a liar and being manipulative. None of these things are in your best interest. I can already picture your performance review where he will make up lies as to why you aren't getting a raise and so forth.
Lets look at it, after having spent my entire life in the business world, how it is very possible going with George.
1: A management job is coming up. Due to your 20 years of experience you are qualified for the job. George wants it, and is trying to get you taking suggestions and orders from him, setting him up as your superior and is letting you know he is going to get the promotion, and is getting you in line. A way of keeping you from applying for the job.
2: Even if you are newer to the company there is no reason not to apply for the job, with 20 years experience. The company hired you at a position below what you are capable of doing, and they may have had you in mind for the upcoming promotion.
I know how that works, as I have been moved up very rapidly several times over other people.
There is a very good chance, that is why you were hired for a lower spot than you are qualified for. If you have the best qualifications and are better with people, you may very well be expected to apply for the position, and it may already be yours if you want it. George may know this and is trying to find ways to sabotage you, thinking he will get it if you screw something up and don't apply.
I can tell you from personal experience that if you have the qualifications and experience for the management position you should go for it. A good company wants to promote the best qualified person, regardless of how long you have been with the company.
All of this^^^. Company management doesn't really want George in the soon to be available management role and would prefer to put someone else in the position. That's likely why they hired you; as a trial run to see if you fit into the Company culture and would be capable of doing the management role.
George has been there longer and has always assumed in his own mind that the role would someday be his, but management seems to feel differently because they hired you (just because the rumor mill thinks George is a shoo-in doesn't mean that's how management feels). If management thought George was a shoo-in for the role, they never would have hired you. What George is doing is item #1 above - playing mental games with you by trying to be your manager before he's got the job.
When the job becomes available, apply for it. In the meantime, consider George the enemy and assume anything he does is an attempt to sabotage you. Be polite, play nice with him, but make sure to keep your a$$ covered with management where George is concerned and document as much as possible in writing. Whatever George tells you, confirm with your boss in writing and keep all of it somewhere safe.
I would not compete with George for this job unless you and your husband can afford a job loss in the near future. Actually, I might prepare for that anyway, because if George gets the job, he may not want to keep you around unless you assume an extremely submissive posture towards him and he is convinced you are no threat and that you will use your skills and experience to make him look good. And as a seasoned professional, is this really a working arrangement you want? You are in a rough spot. I know you just started working there, but I might start looking around, or see if there is a way to transfer to another department even though you say that isn't your first choice.
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