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Old 09-15-2016, 08:39 PM
 
196 posts, read 388,935 times
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Mobile gaming is a mess. I'm not going to pretend I know all the games but I have tried quite a few and every last one has been a tragedy of one sort or another. A lot of the problem is with Japan and it's vision of what a mobile game should be - a casino. These companies keep releasing games that offer nothing but a chance to clean your wallet. Articles praise them for "taking over the market" because they are raking in the dough - but it's short lived money; how can that be healthy for the industry in the long run?

If you ever heard of Gacha games, these are games that specifically focus on putting you in a position where you are always needing to level up in order to proceed. you cannot level up WHAT YOU HAVE, because the game company has made what you have already weak and useless. They have a "summon" system, and unless you summon the right characters or components, your out of luck. People pay through the nose to get the rare thing they need to be able to compete. you pay money but are not guaranteed to get what you need as it is all random with extremely low rates for the relevant stuff.

These games also pretend to be F2P, but they need you to pay money to get anywhere. They shamelessly take money to propel you on top of leader-boards and so-called competitions. If you don't pay you will never make it, and the top positions are occupied by rabid players who pay hundreds - if not thousands to be there.

Many of these games hire people to pretend they are some random Youtube gamer to get people excited that one day they can get good enough to beat the levels in the game as easily - which will never happen.

Those are details which I can go on forever about but the thing is, the way the mobile games are being played out is like the wild west. There are no regulations, no caps - just constant gouging as if it's some unknown industry. If it isn't reeled in, there is going to eventually be a "correction" as in all markets that get out of hand. I am not that savvy as to suggest what to do, but people are going to get tired of paying so much for so little. A full blown PC or Console game, with network connection costs a fraction of what these mobile companies are raking in over time - when is enough enough?
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Old 09-16-2016, 07:09 AM
Yac
 
6,051 posts, read 7,728,669 times
The mobile games market is dynamically expanding. There are tons of very different mobile games out there, not all of them Japanese, not all of them have microtransactions. This trend has been going on for some time on pc too, ranging from games that are theoretically f2p (free to play) but are really p2s (pay to win) - like for example Mechwarrior online, to what some otherwise great games (civ5, borderlands 2) are doing, by releasing tons and tons of additional content, some of which looks like it was removed from the game only to be sold later, in paid dlc.
I can agree that most mobile games aren't very good, at least in my experience. There are tons of clones or games made only to make money (making money is nothing bad, but when you're ONLY after money, its easy to forget about quality), but there are also tons of games where the payment options are there for purely graphical effects(like new clothes for a character) and/or shortening the grind a bit.

But quite honestly, I'm confused.
What kind of regulation would you like there to be ? People are free to create any games they want, if these games met certain standards, they can be distributed. If they don't - authors can distribute them on their own. Also, what body would have to be behind these regulations to enforce them, the UN ?
Also, is your main point that they are making money ? Do you feel somehow cheated ? Did you invest a ton of money ? Do you feel like someone is forcing you to pay ? Last time I checked, no one forced anyone to do that, you always had the option to simply walk away.
If you have an addictive personality, that might be a problem -but it's hardly a gaming industry problem, is it ?
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Orange Blossom Trail
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I dont do Mobile gaming, I dont do PC gaming. I dont understand the appeal. Its too open.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:30 PM
 
196 posts, read 388,935 times
Reputation: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yac View Post
The mobile games market is dynamically expanding. There are tons of very different mobile games out there, not all of them Japanese, not all of them have microtransactions. This trend has been going on for some time on pc too, ranging from games that are theoretically f2p (free to play) but are really p2s (pay to win) - like for example Mechwarrior online, to what some otherwise great games (civ5, borderlands 2) are doing, by releasing tons and tons of additional content, some of which looks like it was removed from the game only to be sold later, in paid dlc.
I can agree that most mobile games aren't very good, at least in my experience. There are tons of clones or games made only to make money (making money is nothing bad, but when you're ONLY after money, its easy to forget about quality), but there are also tons of games where the payment options are there for purely graphical effects(like new clothes for a character) and/or shortening the grind a bit.

But quite honestly, I'm confused.
What kind of regulation would you like there to be ? People are free to create any games they want, if these games met certain standards, they can be distributed. If they don't - authors can distribute them on their own. Also, what body would have to be behind these regulations to enforce them, the UN ?
Also, is your main point that they are making money ? Do you feel somehow cheated ? Did you invest a ton of money ? Do you feel like someone is forcing you to pay ? Last time I checked, no one forced anyone to do that, you always had the option to simply walk away.
If you have an addictive personality, that might be a problem -but it's hardly a gaming industry problem, is it ?
Well if a game is going to act like a casino, with chance based progression, then it should be treated like gambling (in the case of Gacha games, for example). The government did that with online card games (poker, etc.) because they determined it wasn't "skill based".

Of course every business is out to make money, but there is a such thing as gouging. There has to be a line that defines when enough id enough. These Japanese companies are raking in ridiculous amount of cash - and gamers wonder why regular game prices are going up. A player can spend thousands of dollars on a mobile game, trying to keep up with the newest content - and they do. since these companies are getting away with it, we are starting to see REPUTABLE companies like Square (Brave Exivius) Bandai-Namco (Tales of Link) enter the market with the same formula.

And we cannot turn our backs because "people have addictive personalities". If we acted like that there wouldn't be drug treatment programs for addicts, there would be no need for a war on drugs at all because we blame it on the addict (victim). The fact is - everyone has an addiction, and these companies know that and take advantage of it. but my purpose is to point out how destructive this is to the mobile game market, and ultimately all of gaming. We, the consumers have the power to turn off the faucet when we see things are going the bad way - and things are going that way. Sure - RIGHT NOW western developers are by and large not adopting that "profit before fun" formula - but they will as they are forced to compete with these asian companies who are getting fat off of their casino style games. it's only a matter of time where you won't be able to play a game without experiencing the Gotcha that comes from Gacha games...
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:23 AM
Yac
 
6,051 posts, read 7,728,669 times
I still don't quite get the criticism. To me, the games you're describing are simply not worth playing. There are decent free2play games out there, quite a few actually, more than any one person could play. So why waste your time with what you consider "casino" games ? No one is forcing you to play them, right ? You might feel compelled to play but that is something you should take care of. Maybe with some help, I'm in no position to judge or tell you what to do.
I can tell you however that you can simply choose better games, with better business models - there are plenty out there.
I'm not proposing we turn our backs on anyone, but what exactly do you propose we do ? Ban all games that can get people addicted ?
Or are you afraid about the gaming market ? Again, there are tons of quality games where the only microtransactions available are either cosmetic (a new skin for your character won't give you bigger damage or whatnot) or are there to speed up grind (and again, there are games that deal with grind better and those that don't know how to deal with it). You should vote with your wallet so to say and simply stop playing cr*p games.




As for western developers .. let me tell you a story about a game. It was one of the biggest games in one of the biggest genres, published by the biggest western dev. It had a great engine, wonderful physics, amazing graphics, an established franchise with millions of fans. And then the owner rushed it to the stores and it became playable over half a year after it hit the market. Devs weren't given enough time, because if the game didn't hit the shelves on time, it would hurt the bottom line. It required so much work not only to polish out the minor things, the game had extreme difficulties connecting, due to random (seemingly) lags had horrible hit detection that made multiplayer close to unplayable. The game had horrible rubberbanding, worst I've seen (google it). Finally one of it's key features, a huge skyscraper that could be destroyed mid match changing the map, caused it to crash.
The game is Battlefield 4. I ordered my copy long before release, tried playing from day one, only could really get to it after almost 7 months of patches. What does this prove ? Big business both western and .. well, non western has been using this "profits before fun" rule for a while now. It's nothing new.

Generally the whole gaming market has been undergoing significant changes over the years, and while some of these changes might not be the best, like the rampant "let's remove chunks of the game and then sell them as dlc", ultimately things will change and we, as consumers, can influence this by choosing wisely. Don't pre-order, read several reviews before your purchase.
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Old 09-19-2016, 01:47 PM
 
196 posts, read 388,935 times
Reputation: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yac View Post
I still don't quite get the criticism. To me, the games you're describing are simply not worth playing. There are decent free2play games out there, quite a few actually, more than any one person could play. So why waste your time with what you consider "casino" games ? No one is forcing you to play them, right ? You might feel compelled to play but that is something you should take care of. Maybe with some help, I'm in no position to judge or tell you what to do.
I can tell you however that you can simply choose better games, with better business models - there are plenty out there.
I'm not proposing we turn our backs on anyone, but what exactly do you propose we do ? Ban all games that can get people addicted ?
Or are you afraid about the gaming market ? Again, there are tons of quality games where the only microtransactions available are either cosmetic (a new skin for your character won't give you bigger damage or whatnot) or are there to speed up grind (and again, there are games that deal with grind better and those that don't know how to deal with it). You should vote with your wallet so to say and simply stop playing cr*p games.




As for western developers .. let me tell you a story about a game. It was one of the biggest games in one of the biggest genres, published by the biggest western dev. It had a great engine, wonderful physics, amazing graphics, an established franchise with millions of fans. And then the owner rushed it to the stores and it became playable over half a year after it hit the market. Devs weren't given enough time, because if the game didn't hit the shelves on time, it would hurt the bottom line. It required so much work not only to polish out the minor things, the game had extreme difficulties connecting, due to random (seemingly) lags had horrible hit detection that made multiplayer close to unplayable. The game had horrible rubberbanding, worst I've seen (google it). Finally one of it's key features, a huge skyscraper that could be destroyed mid match changing the map, caused it to crash.
The game is Battlefield 4. I ordered my copy long before release, tried playing from day one, only could really get to it after almost 7 months of patches. What does this prove ? Big business both western and .. well, non western has been using this "profits before fun" rule for a while now. It's nothing new.

Generally the whole gaming market has been undergoing significant changes over the years, and while some of these changes might not be the best, like the rampant "let's remove chunks of the game and then sell them as dlc", ultimately things will change and we, as consumers, can influence this by choosing wisely. Don't pre-order, read several reviews before your purchase.
Your right in much if not all of what you say, but my criticism comes from not wanting that disease to start creeping into "regular" games - which is already happening on a small scale. people buy a game, and then even after spending upwards of $100.00 you STILL have micro-transactions? Even if you can accept micro-transactions, it isn't just that, its creating addiction, and then preying on it through persistent micro-transactions that are constantly refreshed via a system that keeps the playing from ever really advancing - basically preying on hope.

These companies pour millions into finding formulas that reel in suckers, addict them, and then keep them hanging on (and I mentioned the Japanese developers only because they are the most recent case, but its all over the mobile market). They don't accidentally make the games that way, they hire sociologists, behavior specialists, psychologists to help them craft something that gets people hooked, like a drug dealer... or pharmaceutical research lab. But the most damaging companies do not care about the balance or the effect on the rest of the gaming community - they know they are going to burn people out, bum people out - and then get out. They know they are infecting other developers and do not care. We cannot blame everything on the consumer or suggest consumers should be so savvy as to do research (what 16 year old is going to do research before playing a mobile game?). We shouldn't wait for that to happen either - they need a big fat regulatory hammer to come down upside their heads every time the thought of gouging people comes to mind - right now there are no rules... we need some. Otherwise that bubble is going to burst and its going to hurt.
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Old 09-20-2016, 12:17 AM
Yac
 
6,051 posts, read 7,728,669 times
Well, I guess we can agree that it would be better if these companies producing and releasing games would care more for the product and the gamer and a bit less about the financial bottom line. EA has been on the cutting edge here, cementing this notion that games are only a product and their sole purpose is to make money.
Luckily there are also other trends - have you heard about a company called CD Projekt Red ? They released one of the best games lately, universally acclaimed - Witcher 3. They had a completely different model - no microtransactions, 16 fee DLC ( some very minor, for example containing alternative costumes for 2 characters - but other companies want money for something this small anyway) and 2 really big and content filled add ons. Apart from that, they listen to the fans and implemented many of the changes that were proposed by the community.
I sincerely hope that when their competitors see how much can be achieved this way, that you can get a great bottom line and don't have to act like you want to cheat your customers, that more companies will follow in their footsteps.

I am perfectly aware of what you say, that this addictive quality some microtransaction filled games have is there not on purpose, but by design. But what do you propose should be done about it ? It's not illegal, no one is forcing anyone to play this. Children can fall victims here, sure, but they have parents that should know enough to shield them (yeah, I know it rarely works this way, unfortunately). It's a bit like eating that deep fried butter on a stick. It has no health benefits, it might be tasty but you'll only get obese and die eating it regularly. Should it be banned ?
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:11 PM
 
997 posts, read 937,346 times
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I play some of those casual games. They try and get you to buy their chips or special doo-dads but I never do. If I am playing an online casino game, I would never buy chips. It spoils the fun. The whole idea is that you have a limit and you have to win. If there is no pretend budget then it is no fun. I would never spend real money on that.

I have played the Candy Crush games and they are fun. I never used the helper things that they try and get you to buy. I will keep trying a level without using them. They are cheats and maybe that is how you win but I would rather pass a level fair and square and I won't pay to play. I would pay for a game outright that was well made. That's a different story.
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Old 09-22-2016, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
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Well IMHO you get what you pay for.

While we can all hate on EA they do offer the option of EA access for $30/year that gives decent discounts, early access, other bennies, and access to the Vault (which has $30 worth of games there available for free download and unlimited play for that 30/year, at least in my opinion, BF's, NFS's, DA:Inquisition to name a few).

If you really want to freak about micro transactions EA isn't in the same league as Square-Enix (ugh!). Just read Polygon or any other gaming site for the fury surrounding Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and it's one use pre-order/season pass items that once used are used (they don't carry through to other playthroughs. Something relatively unprecedented on consoles ).

As to mobile, well if you're playing a F2P game the company has to earn income some way. Either with micro transactions, ads, pay to play options etc. That's not to say that it's all benign, there are companies who just churn out the same game with different graphics again and again (I know my Mom has 5 games from the same developer and every one has garnered a few bucks off her). However that all said I just found Baldur's Gate (I & II) and Icewind Dale for Android at $10 per pop with all their original DLC. There are micro transactions in there too but not intrusively.

Fortunately like Facebook games there will come a reckoning (think Zynga). Then the company's offering better quality for their earnings (by whatever means) will survive and the rest will go to the wall, or ensure better value for money.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:48 PM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,077 posts, read 31,302,097 times
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Most of the quality mobile games I've played are from long established companies. I've played Final Fantasy Tactics through on the iPad, as well as some of the older FF games. No microtransactions.

I play Hearthstone pretty regularly - there are microtransactions, but it's certainly not required unless you want to play competitively.

Plague Inc. is one of my favorite game - again, little in the way of microtransactions.

You just have to be selective and see what works for you.
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