Remember the Alamo 2023

[Pilsn3r]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

As an Okie I am enjoying this thread and the discussion regarding the issue of slavery in the Texas rebellion. Certainly, I grew up with the early versions of Davey Crockett and Forrest Tucker and coonskin caps and lines in the sand. However, being an Okie one of the interesting things that always happened was that Texans would throw it in our face. The mighty and gallant defenders of the Alamo (Texans) vs. Landthieves (Boomers/Sooners) that "stole the land from the Indians"...

Obviously, the idea that "slavery" was the motivation would knock the Texans down a peg in their braggadocio. But it was always troubling that Texans (and most others) had an inaccurate picture of what actually happened in Oklahoma... it makes it hugely important to me have an accurate picture of what happened in Texas.

Specifically. Was slavery THE reason the Texans rebelled or were there multiple reasons. And if there were multiple reasons where did slavery sit among those reasons?

And I hope the mods will let this discussion continue.

There is no one reason. But slavery was the CENTRAL/main reason, but it was not taught that way for the most part - at least until 2019. 20 freaking 19! There are of course teachers throughout Texas who for many many years taught slavery as more than a sidebar. The sad thing is to this day, there are still defenders downplaying slavery as you can see from certain posters. instead of any discussion of slavery's role, it's a non sequitur away from slavery or to the "brave heroes of the Alamo - defenders of freedom".

"But Texans are deeply divided over how, exactly, to remember the Alamo. A $450 million plan to renovate the site has devolved into a five-year brawl over whether to focus narrowly on the 1836 battle or present a fuller view that delves into the site’s Indigenous history and the role of slavery in the Texas Revolution.

Generations of Texas schoolchildren have been taught to admire the Alamo defenders as revolutionaries slaughtered by the Mexican army in the fight for Texas independence. But several were enslavers, including William B. Travis and Davy Crockett — an inconvenient fact in a state where textbooks have only acknowledged since 2018 that slavery was at issue in the Civil War."

[within the above Texas Tribune quote contains the below for further info]

"Texas' Board of Education voted Friday to change the way its students learn about the Civil War. Beginning in the 2019-2020 school year, students will be taught that slavery played a "central role" in the war.

The state's previous social studies standards listed three causes for the Civil War: sectionalism, states' rights and slavery, in that order. In September, the board's Democrats proposed listing slavery as the only cause.

"What the use of 'states' rights' is doing is essentially blanketing, or skirting, the real foundational issue, which is slavery," Democratic board member Marisa Perez-Diaz, from San Antonio, said at a Tuesday board meeting.

Republican board member David Bradley, from Beaumont, argued for keeping the other causes in the curriculum. He said, "Each state had differences and made individual decisions as to whether or not to join into the conflict, correct? I mean, that's the definition of states' rights."

In the end, the Republican-led board landed on a compromise: Students will be taught about "the central role of the expansion of slavery in causing sectionalism, disagreements over states' rights and the Civil War.""

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05...ation-slavery/
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/16/66855...-the-civil-war

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by Pilsn3r

[within the above Texas Tribune quote contains the below for further info]

"Texas' Board of Education voted Friday to change the way its students learn about the Civil War. Beginning in the 2019-2020 school year, students will be taught that slavery played a "central role" in the war.

I thought this was common knowledge.

Also, I don't remember seeing a single slave in the 1988 movie we went to watch at the River Center IMAX in 5th grade before visiting the Alamo, so it must not have been about slavery. :-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uu4iwCvVrE

[Dopo]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-t...serve-slavery/

In 1829, when Vicente Guerrero, then president of the Republic of Mexico, issued a decree that all enslaved people were henceforth emancipated, Anglo settlers were aghast. “We are ruined forever should this measure be adopted,” wrote John Durst, a prominent landowner and politician. Stephen F. Austin replied, “I am the owner of one slave only, an old decrepit woman, not worth much, but in this matter I should feel that my constitutional rights as a Mexican were just as much infringed, as they would be if I had a thousand.”

[Dopo]

This is very interesting
Fredonia - Texas Genealogy Trails

The Fredonian Rebellion (December 21, 1826 January 31, 1827) was the first attempt by Anglo settlers in Texas to secede from Mexico. The settlers, led by empresario Haden Edwards, declared independence from Mexican Texas and created the Republic of Fredonia near Nacogdoches, Texas. The short-lived republic encompassed the land the Mexican government had granted to Edwards in 1825 and included areas that had been previously settled. Edwards's actions soon alienated these established residents, and the increasing hostilities between them and settlers recruited by Edwards led the Mexican government to revoke Edwards's contract.
In late November 1826, a group of Edwards's supporters took control of the region by arresting and removing from office several municipality officials affiliated with the established residents. A month later, the Edwards supporters declared their independence from Mexico. Although the nearby Cherokee tribe initially signed a treaty to support the new republic, overtures from Mexican authorities and respected empresario Stephen F. Austin convinced tribal leaders to repudiate the rebellion. On January 31, 1827, a force of over 100 Mexican soldiers and 250 militiamen from Austin's colony marched into Nacogdoches to restore order. Many of the participants, including Edwards, fled to the United States. A local merchant was arrested and sentenced to death, but later paroled.
The rebellion led Mexican President Guadalupe Victoria to increase the military presence in the area. As a result, several hostile tribes in the area halted their raids on settlements and agreed to a peace treaty. The Comanche abided by this treaty for many years. Fearing that through the rebellion the United States hoped to gain control of Texas, the Mexican government severely curtailed immigration to Texas. This new immigration law was bitterly opposed by colonists and caused increasing dissatisfaction with Mexican rule. Some historians consider the Fredonian Rebellion to be the beginning of the Texas Revolution. Although "premature ... [the Fredonian Rebellion] sparked the powder for later success."

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by Pilsn3r

Bingo! No one, in any post, ever uttered or implied SA was doing anything for any noble cause. It's just an example of a red herring, like what certain broadcasters do.

5000-10000 slaves risked their lives taking the southern underground railroad to escape to Mexico. If the Alamo and TX independence were about freedom, why would the TX slaves want to escape to another country...

Was the southern underground railroad taught in TX in the 50's and onward? Not as famous as Tubman, but since the vast majority of TX slaves who attempted escapes went to Mexico, I would think it SHOULD have been taught in TX schools along with Tubman. Granted, I do not recall being taught about the southern escape in middle or high school, but definitely Tubman and the escape to the north was a big topic in GA.

Yes, we taught the “railroad to freedom in Mexico” to our 7th graders in the 1960s onward.
Don’t know why it would be a revelation to any Texan younger than 70 or so.
Can’t speak for geezers over 70.

I’ll tell you what was shocking to me when my family moved from Taiwan to Austin in 1959 - the segregation signs all over the city and in the State Capitol. Public Restrooms, water fountains, and the like. Even the segregated section for “Colored” people at Memorial Stadium.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by ScoPro

I’ll tell you what was shocking to me when my family moved from Taiwan to Austin in 1959 - the segregation signs all over the city and in the State Capitol. Public Restrooms, water fountains, and the like. Even the segregated section for “Colored” people at Memorial Stadium.

It's a different topic ....
but I'm very fascinated with the culture of the South shown in the movie "The help"
How a society could be so divided and still the people they didn't want anywhere close to their perfect neighborhood, they would hire them to babysit and raise their children.

[ScoPro]

Yeah, it was a weird culture.

[elan]

Originally Posted by NewMexicoCowboy

The Alamo fell on this date in 1836.Those brave men fought and died for our freedom so we could be free from Mexico. I will always love the Alamo defenders.Remember the Alamo!

I think it's pretty interesting history. My great aunt had letters from my third (?) great grandfather talking about how wild and dangerous Texas was. He never had to fight, but delivered supplies (salt and so on) to soldiers stationed around (the Alamo not being one of them). As a kid, I was wild eyed reading the letters (lol).

[texasdiver]

Originally Posted by Dopo

It's a different topic ....
but I'm very fascinated with the culture of the South shown in the movie "The help"
How a society could be so divided and still the people they didn't want anywhere close to their perfect neighborhood, they would hire them to babysit and raise their children.

It is frankly an extension of southern slave culture traditions. Instead of buying slaves to work in your house and raise your children (Mammy in Gone with the Wind). The grandchildren of slave owners just hire the grandchildren of their slaves to do the same thing instead.

Northerners who didn't have the same cultural roots in slavery didn't tend to hire black people to work as cooks and nannies and maids, at least not nearly to the same extent as in the south.

[crone]

Originally Posted by Dopo

It's a different topic ....
but I'm very fascinated with the culture of the South shown in the movie "The help"
How a society could be so divided and still the people they didn't want anywhere close to their perfect neighborhood, they would hire them to babysit and raise their children.

Dh's great grandfather had a wife and family. Down the road, he had a mistress and a few more kids. It was well known in the east Texas community.

When he died the property was split evenly between all his kids, black and white. I think that was common.

DH was allowed to play with his cousins until they all hit jr high age and then they were segregated at home as well as school.