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But some people in small cities think they can support a major pro sports team and use the Packers as an example. Well, there are reasons why little old Green Bay, Wisconsin has a football team and your town doesn't.
1. The Packers are owned by stockholders and the people of Green Bay, not one owner or small group that can do whatever with the team
2. The team won several championships before the 60s
3. Because of reasons 1 & 2, the Packers were grandfathered into the modern day (Super Bowl Era) NFL. I guarantee that if the Packers sucked and didn't have the financial support, the team would have either folded or moved to a bigger city a long time ago just like all the other small city teams from the 1920s.
So no, Bismark, North Dakota, you CAN'T have a team just because Green Bay has one. It takes a lot more than just asking.
Sports teams, especially Big Four (even MLS, now) aren't necessities. Hell, for some cities, they're a luxury to have.
The Packers were pretty close to moving to Milwaukee permanently in the mid-1950s when they had become a down-and-out franchise. Three things allowed the Packers to stay in Green Bay:
1) The construction of Lambeau Field (opened 1957)
2) Vince Lombardi becoming the Packers' head coach and turning the team around
3) The NFL gaining approval from Congress to create a national TV contract for the league as a whole rather than for individual or groups of teams
If there is a North American sport where a relatively small U.S. market could support a major league team, it is pro football. The issue isn't so much market size as it is cost of the stadium and justifying the construction of a large stadium for a limited number of events.
If there is a North American sport where a relatively small U.S. market could support a major league team, it is pro football. The issue isn't so much market size as it is cost of the stadium and justifying the construction of a large stadium for a limited number of events.
Really?
Because I would say the NBA, seeing how they have several more small market teams.
Even Oklahoma City has a team and... well, I don't wanna get into that. Someone from Oklahoma may take issue with what I say.
Because I would say the NBA, seeing how they have several more small market teams.
Even Oklahoma City has a team and... well, I don't wanna get into that. Someone from Oklahoma may take issue with what I say.
Look at all the small markets that support major college football teams.
IMO, it is easier for a market or region to put 60,000 fans in the seats for 8 games that are almost entirely played on weekends than it is for a market/region to put 18,000 fans in the seats for 41 games, many of which are on weeknights.
I don't have solid reasons I can state but personally do not feel small markets can support football over basketball or even baseball. Actually with economic issues, rising costs, ticket prices, enhanced home viewing experiences, a small market anything is really a tough sell these days. Check out the baseball stands when a game is on TV, look at all the empty seats and not just when a team is doing bad.
Using Packers as an example saying it can be done elsewhere is really a stretch. They are one of the original franchises plus no other team has played in their stadium as long, ranks right up there with Wrigley and Fenway. Soldier Field is older, of course, but Bears played at Wrigley until the 70s, I believe. Lambeau is a year long destination, tour buses line up to visit any given day. Anyone interested in the history of the NFL probably has it on their bucket list.
Packers situation is truly unique, their money is accounted for, reported, only franchise to totally open the books. A new franchise in a small market, who is going to be the owner, stadium and what about tax payer money, a major issue these days. I have friends that moved from Arlington, TX to Wisconsin and hated the tax situation for Jerry's stadium.
How many cities with sports teams have a minimal or zero tax hit to the average taxpayer? A major sticking point when trying to fund buildings, and then these are the same people who have to pay high prices to see a game??? I just don't see small markets supporting a new team.
1) The Green Bay Packers in many ways are Wisconsin's other major "college" football team (besides the University of Wisconsin in Madison); like U-W they draw fans from throughout the Badger State. And for that reason one could argue the Packers are not a true small market team, especially considering Wisconsin has a moderately high population and most of the state's population is within 3 hours of Green Bay. The Packers would have moved from Green Bay many years ago if they didn't draw from much of Wisconsin (and parts of the western half of Upper Michigan), rather than just the Green Bay area. Any small market, major league pro sports team that would want to be viable would need to draw from its entire state or large area region to be viable, much like the Packers do.
2) Can you imagine a city like Green Bay supporting a North American major league pro sports team in any sport/league besides the NFL? I can't. The fact that there are only 8 home games per season (okay, 10 home games including preseason games) and almost all of them are played on Sundays makes it much, much easier for Green Bay to support an NFL team than a team in any other league.
3) If you don't agree with #2 (or #1 for that matter), I offer a pro sports team example that is probably the most analogous example to the Packers in North American (or at least U.S./Canada) pro sports - the Saskatchewan Roughriders. Now football is not as popular in Canada as it is in the U.S. (and hockey is considerably more popular than football in Canada) and the game attendances aren't as large. Nonetheless, the Roughriders are known for selling out just about all of their games, drawing from much of Saskatchewan, and having a fairly large number of fans compared to most other CFL teams, despite playing in the CFL's smallest market and also being relatively unsuccessful historically. (As an additional frame of reference, Wisconsin has about 5.75 million people; by contrast, Saskatchewan, despite being much larger area-wise than Wisconsin, has about 20% as many people, with roughly 1.13 million people.) The Roughriders' success at the gate has led some people, especially those in Saskatchewan, to think the province could support an NHL team. Yet the NHL has not seriously considered adding a team in Saskatoon (the most likely target city for an NHL team) or Regina, and most people who follow pro hockey think placing an NHL team in Saskatchewan would be a mistake, despite the fact hockey is more popular in the province and Canada as a whole. Why? Because supporting a team for 41 home games, including many weeknight home games, is a more challenging proposition than supporting a team for 9 home games that are mostly on the weekend. (CFL teams play 18 regular season games.)
4) The Packers have played at Lambeau Field since 1957; by contrast the Red Sox have played at Fenway Park since 1912 and the Cubs have played at Wrigley Field since 1916. (Wrigley Field actually opened in 1914 and was used by the Federal League Chicago Whales during its first two years of existence.) Those lengths of time playing in one venue are not comparable. Lambeau Field IS comparable to Dodger Stadium (opened 1962) and to some degree the Oakland Coliseum (opened and used by major league pro sports teams continuously since 1966) and Jack Murphy Stadium/Qualcomm Stadium (also opened 1966).
5) I've followed the NFL since 1981, and honestly I have very little interest in going to Lambeau Field. (I would consider going if my team, the Philadelphia Eagles, was playing there and their game wasn't televised where I was living.) From reading about the stadium, most of the seating is backless bleachers. That may have been acceptable in the NFL at one time (and it was until the early 1990s, though most teams had facilities with stadium-style seating by the mid-1970s), but it isn't any longer. Quite frankly, despite some upgrades, objectively-speaking Lambeau Field is probably a sub-par NFL stadium; most people don't want to say that though because of the atmosphere at the stadium and because it is seemingly sacrilege to criticize the stadium or the Green Bay Packers. (As a side note, I think many "major" college football stadiums that are thought of as great venues probably aren't that good of stadiums; for example from first-hand experience I think Penn State's Beaver Stadium, which I sometimes call the Erector Set, is a very mediocre stadium.) If the Packers played in just about any other market besides Green Bay, I'm pretty sure Lambeau Field would have been replaced sometime in the last 25 or so years.
That's true but some of these programs bring in 90 plus million in revenue. Not enough maybe for top tier leagues but definitely better than any minor leagues
That's true but some of these programs bring in 90 plus million in revenue. Not enough maybe for top tier leagues but definitely better than any minor leagues
Sure, but that still doesn't translate to successfully supporting a major pro sports franchise.
Because I would say the NBA, seeing how they have several more small market teams.
Even Oklahoma City has a team and... well, I don't wanna get into that. Someone from Oklahoma may take issue with what I say.
There are 1.4 Million people (and growing) in the Oklahoma City metro area and a sizable corporate presence. 2 Fortune 500 companies are HQ'd in OKC.
There are 312,000 or so in the Green Bay metro area and the biggest employer is a satellite office for Humana.
Bad comparison.
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