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In my experience, most of the people bashing SF on this site are doing so from afar, or through some political agenda.
Oakland seems to suffer from being perceived as an afterthought by most of the wealthiest, best known and best regarded (by residents and visitors alike) areas of the Bay Area--SF, Marin, Sonoma, Napa, San Mateo, and Santa Clara Counties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday
I find it weird when west bay folks make a point to bash Oakland as if they have something to prove and the air of superiority is just a cover for a low self esteem or bad breeding.
Absolutely re: a political agenda from afar - and for some, it's a personal (albeit hidden) agenda as well; else, 'weird' and 'air of superiority' (or even 'wealth') wouldn't come into play relative to this thread which is, ultimately, a matter of preference/interests at the end of the day (in conjunction with one's specific location within the Bay Area), particularly since 'visitors' aren't a topic of the thread.
I LOVE living in Marin...& Sf....BUT IMO when you bring wealth into it, you are kinda showing your own prejudice & bashing. Because you don't have to be rich to like Sf better IMO. I wasn't when I 1st moved to the BA.
I wasn't stating my personal feelings about Oakland relative to wealth, just that in my observation and in general, the wealthier parts of the Bay Area tend to look down on Oakland, if they think about it at all. I don't know if that's because the parts of the Bay Area I mentioned tend to be wealthier than Oakland and the East Bay, or if that has nothing to do with it, but their being wealthier than Oakland, while also tending to avoid it is an easily observable condition.
For instance, people in Marin generally don't think twice about making a 45-minute drive up into Sonoma or Napa for a day trip or dinner. Likewise, a run into SF for dinner or a show, or even to CalTrain to catch a train to a Sharks game is no big deal. But, they don't ever take the short trip over to Oakland.
There are also strong commute patterns for work, entertainment and air travel between the Peninsula and the City. Oakland doesn't have much of anything to lure someone from Yountville, Healdsburg, SF, Palo Alto or San Jose that they can't find elsewhere in the Bay Area.
As I stated earlier, I like a lot of Oakland, but wouldn't really be too interested in spending lots of time there, if my office weren't there.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
I wasn't stating my personal feelings about Oakland relative to wealth, just that in my observation and in general, the wealthier parts of the Bay Area tend to look down on on Oakland, if they think about it at all.
For instance, people in Marin generally don't think twice about making a 45-minute drive up into Sonoma or Napa for a day trip or dinner.
IMO tho...does it matter why ppl don't like Oakland if they don't like it? If we don't go there....we don't go there...specially if we live on this side of the Bay bridge. Why does that make us "weird" or part of "bad breeding"...ha?
Sonoma is so different than Oakland...or Sf. So ofc it's worth it to drive up there when you want to get away from it all IMO. I don't think many ppl do it for just a dinner tho.....it's more a day trip or overnight. BUT....we did drive for dinner a couple of times to Napa after they 1st opened up indoor dining again...they were one of the 1st places to do it. BUT it's not a regular thing IMO to drive to Napa for dinner ...AND you're going from a more crowded area to a less populated area when you go up to Sonoma so it's more relaxing IMO than a drive to Oakland ofc. You're making a super weird comparison.
Sonoma is unique & romantic & a beautiful drive....Oakland is a big crowded city that really isn't any different than any other big crowded city. It's not worth going there for dinner IMO. If you want something in a big city & you live on this side...you just go to Sf.
edit: I don't get why a couple ppl feel like they have to defend Oakland..it makes no sense to me. If you like it or you go there.....that's up to you. Everybody can like what they like. BUT I can totally see how some ppl never make it there....even if they have lived here a lot longer than me.
Last edited by TashaPosh; 11-21-2020 at 10:58 AM..
In my experience, most of the people bashing SF on this site are doing so from afar, or through some political agenda. SF is rightly or wrongly, to many, the poster child of extreme Liberal and Progressive politics and, as such, is a popular target for those who wish to denigrate those viewpoints. The City certainly is not without its flaws, but it's nowhere near the place the parrots of Fox News would have you believe it is.
Oakland seems to suffer from being perceived as an afterthought by most of the wealthiest, best known and best regarded (by residents and visitors alike) areas of the Bay Area--SF, Marin, Sonoma, Napa, San Mateo, and Santa Clara Counties.
Still, Oakland has certain charms. I generally liken it a bigger, more widespread version of SF's Mission district in a lot of parts--rough around the edges, a little seedy, but with sprinklings of art, culture, restaurants and nightlife all around. There's an entrepreneurial/artistic spirit in Oakland that seems to have been supplanted by a much more highbrow sense in San Francisco. Many like that gritty Oakland vibe better. They tend to live over there, though. And for the rest of us, it's still probably not worth a 30-40 minute drive across a bridge to get that.
So, outside the more suburban, exurban and fringe communities of the East Bay (Contra Costa, Alameda, Solano Counties) who are drawn to Oakland's nightlife, events, A's Baseball, live performances, etc. (nearly all of which are available on the other side of the Bay), there's not much reason to go to Oakland.
That all said, since my office moved to Oakland (JLS area) a couple years ago, I have been surprised how much I like Oakland. That said, I don't go far outside my bubble there, with Uptown, around 19th St. BART (pre-COVID) being about as far as I've gone with any regularity. I've also been dumbfounded by how hard it seems for Oakland to get its act together on issues that affect the quality of life there, like homelessness, urban decay, infrastructure, crime, etc. Oakland is much worse than any of the other medium-large urban areas in the Bay Area in this regard, in my opinion.
Finally, Oakland inexplicably seems to squander the advantages it receives due to its location in the region and proximity to larger cities, such as its public transit, international airport, transportation infrastructure, available land for development, access to professional sports, commercial developments, business climate, etc. By rights, Oakland deserves to be a "second city" to SF (though Oaklanders cringe at this) like Ft. Worth is to Dallas. Instead, it ends up being more like a Baltimore to DC.
I wasn't stating my personal feelings about Oakland relative to wealth, just that in my observation and in general, the wealthier parts of the Bay Area tend to look down on Oakland, if they think about it at all. I don't know if that's because the parts of the Bay Area I mentioned tend to be wealthier than Oakland and the East Bay, or if that has nothing to do with it, but their being wealthier than Oakland, while also tending to avoid it is an easily observable condition.
For instance, people in Marin generally don't think twice about making a 45-minute drive up into Sonoma or Napa for a day trip or dinner. Likewise, a run into SF for dinner or a show, or even to CalTrain to catch a train to a Sharks game is no big deal. But, they don't ever take the short trip over to Oakland.
There are also strong commute patterns for work, entertainment and air travel between the Peninsula and the City. Oakland doesn't have much of anything to lure someone from Yountville, Healdsburg, SF, Palo Alto or San Jose that they can't find elsewhere in the Bay Area.
As I stated earlier, I like a lot of Oakland, but wouldn't really be too interested in spending lots of time there, if my office weren't there.
The A's can still draw a crowd in a good season.... but Raiders and Warriors, Bay Bombers, Invaders, Seals all gone.
IMO tho...does it matter why ppl don't like Oakland if they don't like it? If we don't go there....we don't go there...specially if we live on this side of the Bay bridge. Why does that make us "weird" or part of "bad breeding"...ha?
Sonoma is so different than Oakland...or Sf. So ofc it's worth it to drive up there when you want to get away from it all IMO. I don't think many ppl do it for just a dinner tho.....it's more a day trip or overnight. BUT....we did drive for dinner a couple of times to Napa after they 1st opened up indoor dining again...they were one of the 1st places to do it. BUT it's not a regular thing IMO to drive to Napa for dinner ...AND you're going from a more crowded area to a less populated area when you go up to Sonoma so it's more relaxing IMO than a drive to Oakland ofc. You're making a super weird comparison.
Sonoma is unique & romantic & a beautiful drive....Oakland is a big crowded city that really isn't any different than any other big crowded city. It's not worth going there for dinner IMO. If you want something in a big city & you live on this side...you just go to Sf.
edit: I don't get why a couple ppl feel like they have to defend Oakland..it makes no sense to me. If you like it or you go there.....that's up to you. Everybody can like what they like. BUT I can totally see how some ppl never make it there....even if they have lived here a lot longer than me.
I really don't think we're disagreeing on any points here.
There was a point made earlier that perhaps it was the bridge toll or BART fare that discouraged people from visiting Oakland. That was what was behind my point about visiting Sonoma or San Jose--there are draws to those places that are worth the bridge toll or train fare.
That said, in my opinion and practice, if there were one viable reason why someone living in SF would go to Oakland (pre-lockdown), it would be for a date night of live music and dinner. That's, to me, the one area where Oakland occasionally offered certain acts in venues like the Fox Theater or smaller rooms, and certain restaurants that were worth seeking out for one reason or another, that might not be comparable in other parts of the Bay Area... even in SF.
Of course, the same could be said for a number of areas across this region, but the difference is, those areas tend to draw visitors, where Oakland does not, which is the focus of this thread.
The A's can still draw a crowd in a good season.... but Raiders and Warriors, Bay Bombers, Invaders, Seals all gone.
I don't know--A's fans are certainly loyal and vocal, but they never really turn out in good numbers, even when the team is in the heat of a race.
I've only been to an A's game a few times, mainly to watch the Astros when they came to town, and the stands were half full at best. The one time I saw a good crowd at the Coliseum, was for the Battle of the Bay and I and more than half of those in attendance were wearing Orange.
A new ballpark would help them immensely, but again, Oakland hasn't been able to get its act together...and now may have missed the window for a long, long time. That may be a blessing in disguise, though. The proposed ballpark near JLS is in a great location, primed for development, but the design looks really bad to me. Also, the talk of aerial trams to lift fans over the homeless encampments under the freeway overpasses seems ridiculous.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanoSF
There was a point made earlier that perhaps it was the bridge toll or BART fare that discouraged people from visiting Oakland. That was what was behind my point about visiting Sonoma or San Jose--there are draws to those places that are worth the bridge toll or train fare.
BUT your example was ppl from Marin driving up to Sonoma. There is no bridge toll from Marin to Sonoma AND it's a relaxing drive farther away from the city. So...IMO...it was a super weird comparison to make about why ppl in parts of the BA aren't drawn to ever going to Oakland....or why we would be "weird".
I don't know--A's fans are certainly loyal and vocal, but they never really turn out in good numbers, even when the team is in the heat of a race.
I've only been to an A's game a few times, mainly to watch the Astros when they came to town, and the stands were half full at best. The one time I saw a good crowd at the Coliseum, was for the Battle of the Bay and I and more than half of those in attendance were wearing Orange.
A new ballpark would help them immensely, but again, Oakland hasn't been able to get its act together...and now may have missed the window for a long, long time. That may be a blessing in disguise, though. The proposed ballpark near JLS is in a great location, primed for development, but the design looks really bad to me. Also, the talk of aerial trams to lift fans over the homeless encampments under the freeway overpasses seems ridiculous.
Many projects that could have been great simply did not happen...
A very successful developer that I came to know has projects in many states and central California... commercial, R&D, mix use, etc...
He had purchased vacant/rundown old industrial property in Oakland requiring site clean up...
I asked him if he knew what he was in for and he said he was listening.
Oakland is different than any other place and projects that would be a win/win often never happen due to lack of concensus.
There are too many factions to please and for the few that are able they get the keys to the city even if the project goes belly up later taking city money with it... Some are Just Desserts, Ice Skating Rink, etc...
He presented his plans but could never gain consensus... some elected officials openly said it is not going to happen because he was an outsider or was not offering the right incentives... on council person said for her consideration this project would need to hire x number or her constituents, selected by her with no related experience requirement.
To make a long story short... the Real Estate market was favorable and he got out... his was the only project with zero taxpayer money and now, years later property still abandoned...
Compared to cities such as Hayward, San Leandro, Walnut Creek, Pleasant Hill and county Castro Valley Oakland is alone in the complexities and development suffers but that could actually be the plan???
Speaking as a 4th generation Oaklander with experience in the above mentioned cities and my home town Oakland.
Some would say Oakland succeeds in-spite of itself and pre-covid the synergy was amazing... after decades with little... but only in Oakland is success controversial.
BUT your example was ppl from Marin driving up to Sonoma. There is no bridge toll from Marin to Sonoma AND it's a relaxing drive farther away from the city. So...IMO...it was a super weird comparison to make about why ppl in parts of the BA aren't drawn to ever going to Oakland....or why we would be "weird".
I didn't say it's "weird" to not be drawn to Oakland. In fact, I stated that it's quite common.
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Sonoma is unique & romantic & a beautiful drive....Oakland is a big crowded city that really isn't any different than any other big crowded city. It's not worth going there for dinner IMO. If you want something in a big city & you live on this side...you just go to Sf. 
