Help while we're down in Vero plus first impressions. (Miami: low income, for sale)

[Icemodeled]

We are down in vero beach for 4 days to check out neighborhoods, the town and surrounding towns. Our realtor took us to about 6 or 7 homes today. Most expensive house was 129k. All needed some work but decent 3bed 2bath 1500sqft+ homes. Neighborhoods we viewed within price points were vero lake estates, Dixie heights and citrus gardens.

Now, I know doing some reading on here VLE has been commented on a lot about being cheap for a reason. Driving through, 95% of homes were very well kept and landscaped. There were several mixed in that looked more run down, but few and far between. Is this still a neighborhood to be concerned with of crime? Is it that bad? I know Gifford is worse and we wouldn't even consider that area but VLE didn't look bad. Are looks deceiving?

Thoughts on Dixie heights and citrus gardens? I haven't seen much about these.

Also, how much would we need to get a 3bed 2bath house in a NICE neighborhood. Not a million dollar area but also not a area that's called "undesirable" or low income area. We really don't want to up our budget because we are paying cash and do not want to finance at all.. But I do not want to end up in a "bad" area either.

So far while we're out checking around, we have been all over vero beach, south vero, Sebastian, fellsmere, ect. We are getting quotes on auto/home insurance, checking out the local stores, groceries, ect. Our first impression last night of vero wasn't so good. We drove into town after dark(7pm) and stopped at Walmart for some snacks(on 20th st) People were more.. Shady looking types and a lady yelled at us claiming we cut in front of her in line at self checkouts(though there were 4 open!) We really liked Sebastian a bit more. Less traffic and seems a bit more quiet. Plus, we went to their Walmart and it was much better overall. Even the store itself looked better.

I will say the downtown in vero and barrier island is beautiful. We have also enjoyed the food at squid lips and hurricane grill. Tomorrow we will be driving through ft peirce to port st lucie to just look around.

So, to sum it up, questions are about those 3 neighborhoods and what's the lowest price point to get into a desirable neighborhood?

Thanks, as always

[HarryWho?]

Nothing wrong with VLE. I came armed with the same chat forum attitudes in 2011. I didn't even look at VLE. I was set on Vero, but wound up in Sebastian for most of the same reasons you stated. I love the Island, and actually had the chance to buy a descent house there, but realized that because of insurance, evacuations, and the difference in the price of housing stock, as a retiree of limited means, I would be better off on the mainland. I got the house I wanted at the price I wanted with more extras than I expected. The only real concern about VLE is the unpaved roads . I know it's trivial, but I hate dirty cars. I have a lot more I can add, and I will later. I have to go because my better half has an early appointment and I have to go.

[Icemodeled]

Thank you Harry for the response! Yes we didn't really the unpaved roads either. Also, most neighborhoods we looked in didn't have street lights. I did like the rural feel and the homes were on larger lots, more space from each other.

We looked at a house in Lakewood park today. It's a ft pierce address but seems closer to vero beach. We thought the neighborhood was fairly quiet, older homes but all paved roads and had a community park/pool. Small HOA fee. Driving around, homes seem kept up well. Is this area a decent neighborhood? Anyone lived/have lived there?

The last house we seen today was 349 SE calmoso dr in port st lucie. Neighborhood didn't really have a name, but was quiet and similar to Lakewood but maybe just slightly nicer looking. A neighbor next door was friendly and spoke highly of the area. From what we saw, it all looked nice to. If anyone knew anything about that area, I'd love to hear comments.

[quattrohead]

PSL in general is very nice and there is an area in South Fort Pierce that boarders PSL that is very quiet too, almost country like.
Have not been to Sebastian yet, but a family friend has and loves it.
Stuart is very so-so.

[runswithscissors]

I don't really know how to respond to your post. First of all we are in a new real estate bubble. All the "bargains "are gone. Supply was eaten up and we are back to our 2008-ish prices.

Vero and Sebastian are COASTAL BEACH TOURIST attraction areas. PSL is INLAND and NOTHING like up here. Not comparable in area or prices.

I also don't know why people want to move here worried about crime when our crime rates are so low.

Here's the crime blotter for both City of Sebastian, City of Vero and the County:

YESTERDAY, Sebastian had a "3 counts lewd and lascivious and felony grand theft" (attn: Harrywho? LOL) and Vero had a "felony aggravated assault and domestic battery".

The county blotter has more. You have to look at the addresses AND addresses of the PERP since so many come here from other places. IE our only murder last year was a schizophrenic homeless guy from Miami who wandered up here for no reason. At a McDonalds. The Police are changing the laws and policy from that because BEFORE you weren't allowed to "harass" these nut cases if they were loitering.

HERE:

VeroNews

You judged Vero Beach from pulling into the WALMART on your way off of I-95? I go to both. They are both the same. Vero has plenty of high end people and cars as much as low end. IT'S WALMART.

You could have gone to TARGET across the street.

WHOOPS maybe not since Walmarts always have MORE SELECTION than Targets even though people love bashing Walmart and loving Target.

There was a shooting last week on Persian Lane in Sebastian about 8 minutes from Vero Lake Estates so, whatever. Seems like a personal disagreement not a random victim. It happens.

You haven't seen ANYTHING here.

There are EXTENSIVE choices. BUT WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?

You didn't state your BUDGET.

I don't know about this "1500 sq ft 3/2 for $129" idea. Not realistic. So maybe that's why she sent you to the "secondary" areas. But STILL she should have explained and shown you MORE than THAT.

OR you're not telling us.

There's a perfect 2/2/ single house in MY neighborhood for $165 but we're an HOA. But the price is right. My CONDO listing prices are running around $110-120 but we have amenities.

Just for examples.

City of Vero Beach is the COUNTY SEAT for Indian River County. Small with defined boundaries just like City of Sebastian.

Everything else is INDIAN RIVER COUNTY. They just call it Vero Beach because Vero Beach is the MSA name.

It appears your "realtor" is showing you the worst/meh areas IMO.

How did you find this person and what did they tell you about your requirements?

Dixie Heights? WHY??? I would never move there in a million years and I live IN South Vero across from there east of Rt 1.

Is that where she has all her listings??? Do you have a bunch of kids and limited to that size or something?

No reason to go to LAKEWOOD PARK, for goodness sakes when you haven't seen anything HERE.

Vero Lake Estates is NOT really Vero Beach. It's literally contiguous to SEBASTIAN. Maybe they've gotten straightened out by now. If Harry says so then it's correct.

Citrus Gardens is simply the name of a very small subdivision of which there are probably 100 around here like that. There are LOTS of houses in that range but NOT NEW. Which is maybe why you were shown VLE.

Was that the one on 40th Ave? For $149? That looks about right for that area and it's photos with renovations they did and the yard.

But there's a 3/2 in Lindsay Lanes on 50th Ave for $159 that is tremendously better. 1900 sq foot. I work there all the time. In fact it looks PERFECT to me.

Maybe you didn't want to see it because you have a preconceived notion of GIFFORD. GIFFORD has some VERY expensive housing and nice housing.

Just because an address POSTAL says "Vero Beach" is meaningless, they are Indian River COUNTY. The Vero Beach MSA.

Go to TRULIA, search your price range and look at houses YOURSELF. Do your search criteria "low" "high" and remove foreclosures and conds etc.

http://www.trulia.com/for_sale/Vero_...00_price/10_p/

When you click on a listing you can scroll to the end of the page and see COMPS.

What SOLD and what is FOR SALE. You can see the actual SOLD PRICE instead of guessing the neighborhood's situation.

Your realtor is not giving you any value unless there's something you're not sharing here.

If your range is up to $160 (going from Citrus Gardens) then there are FAR better choices than Dixie Heights but we are not allowed to post SAMPLE LISTINGS here from Trulia for some weird reason.

but they are limited in that price range and age AND SIZE

Pine Tree park (another small subdivision like Citrus Gardens) on 4th lane off 66th, Laurelwood on 5th St, 56th Ave (near Walmart LOL) RAMONA PARK SUBDIVISION that is totally new inside with a big yard.

There's a VERY nice listing in Garden Grove ON Garden Grove off Rt 1 right next to me at $154.00. But it's a 2/2.

I work for someone on 54th over there and it's nice. Wooded and quiet. But I don't know 56th per se.

In FLORIDA you will see random blocks with deferred maintenance right next to good blocks so it's a crap shoot when you're looking.

You need to drive UP AND DOWN each major street and on all the side streets.

Meaning 20th, 27th, 43rd, 58th, 66th etc. Running North to South.

It's a grid.

I'll post the method I told someone else here, later but start with Trulia.

If you want something that is only 10 years old 129 - 150 with that SIZE and single family, then yes VLE maybe your only option.

This area has become very popular. You're going to have to make some concessions and I'd NEVER give up LOCATION for a 3rd bedroom unless I HAD TO which is just not something I'd ever get in the position of needing to do.

There are ALOT of houses over 150 like in the 160s even NEW. Like Maronda Homes The Lakes At Sand Ridge.

So I don't think you've really done enough research.

Is that ALL YOU SAW IN FOUR DAYS??? LOL I found over 20 houses spending a half hour on Trulia.

[runswithscissors]

Here's how I've told other people to tour Vero Beach. Not including the barrier island which is self explanatory. The bridges are at 17th and 60E on Indian River Blvd.

The CITY of Vero Beach pop 17K, is a small boundary inside the Indian River County territory pop 160K. Vero is the County Seat for IRC.

IRC also includes City of Sebastian, City of Fellsmere, and other unincorporated "towns" or "areas" with names like Gifford, Indian River Shores, Florida Ridge, Olso, Winter Beach, Vero Beach West Corridor etc. You can Wiki that. The Vero Beach MSA. If you don't live in the cities your services come from the COUNTY. You have to research which services come from whom.

You can google the map of the streets that are technically the city.

We have a free bus transit line that can usually get you where you need to go but it's not one of these urban types with buses every 10 minutes.

There is a definite grid. N S E W.

Indian River Blvd (north/south) is curved and doesn’t run the entire grid but you want to drive it, too. It starts at 4th and dead ends at 53rd at Grand Harbor, a beautiful community in GIFFORD (technically).

Some but not all streets will run all the way from Indian River Blvd all the way West really far to I-95 or say, 66th, 82nd...it all depends if the street cuts through or not.

The area around the Airport can get a little tricky, too. 23rd, 26th...

There is such variety and there are things you won't know exist like: cattle/horse farms/ranches, citrus groves, nice HOAs or subdivisions in the MIDDLE of the City limits/areas next to farmettes with livestock, or streets tucked away on a plain street that's not even paved with decent sized yards and kids playing all over and Florida lifestyle life with boats and RVs and stuff in the yard. Or just random standalone houses that may be awesome. You can see properties on acreage with huge driveways set back and large homes right next to a humble ranch.

Some streets are UNPAVED - they have a sort of compacted sand substrate and the people who live there can pay to pave them.

Some HOAs are very limited with no gate or amenities and you just pay to have your common grass area maintained or the sign updated or decorated or whatever. Like $75.00 per quarter. If you want to live in these nice subdivisions with COMMON AREA, someone has to do the work. And of course there may be some bylaws like you can't let your grass grow 2 feet high being obnoxious to your neighbor who is only mere yards from your property line.

In Florida you can have some great blocks/subdivisions that are right next to some not so great blocks and vice versa.

You also see houses that you won’t imagine what’s inside. Like one HOA that has all the pools INSIDE the house in an open courtyard setup with walls and open screen roofing that you cannot see from the street.

The Laurels right on 8th st. 3/3/ 2000 sq ft. was the one I was in. I really love that model because nobody can watch you in your pool area. But you may be claustrophobic. It also has a bedroom/office off the pool area. Your front door leads you into the pool courtyard and you go into the house through doors.

They have models like that in Grand Harbor which has every type of house you can imagine AND a marina. And of course, golf.

Some condo communities also have modest golf like Vista Royale and it's a very reasonable price point.

1. I would get a paper map and highlighters. I'd highlight the major North to South roads: Indian River Blvd., Rt 1. ,20th Ave, 27th Ave, 43rd Ave, 58th Ave (Kings Hwy), 66th Ave, 74th and 82nd. Every single one of these has HOAs or standalone housing up and down them and off them on the intersecting streets. AND some unexpected things like the "feed mill" on 43rd. Or a dog park. Or you can see where the schools are if you don't want to get tied up in traffic during school rush if you have to commute in those hours like ME.
   
   
2. Also highlight the East West major streets. Oslo Rd in the South, 60W/E in the middle. 41st/45th/53rd which is where it starts to get rural and they go all the way east to Rt 1 or Indian River Blvd and west to I-95 (some not all).
   
   
3. I'd start at one end and finish up at the other. Either South or North. I'd probably start from the South. The more dense part of the area.
   
   
4. I'd probably start at SOUTHWEST - Oslo Rd. MANY HOAs there.
   
   
5. Start at Rt 1 at Oslo at Walgreens on the rail road tracks and drive West. But on Rt 1 south of Oslo on the Intracoastal east side of the street are two nice communities Grove Isle and Garden Grove if you want to see them. I live in one LOL
   
   
6. You'll pass good HOAs. I wouldn't bother going South of Oslo unless you have a good reason to, except for the HOAs that are on that South side of Oslo Rd.
   
   
7. Go all the way West to 66th or 82nd, which is the most rural and has cattle and farms 74th is not paved but it is open.
   
   
8. THEN turn right to go north to 5th St or 4th St, make a right and go East all the way to Rt 1 again. Those E/W streets don’t all cut through all the way down but 4th does for sure.
   
   
9. Just drive up and down back and forth. All the streets I mentioned (Avenues) go North and South as the major roads.
   
   
10. Indian River Blvd is the one street not as "GRID-like" but you don't want to miss it. It’s the beach access. There are a TON of homes all behind Miracle Mile, around the Vero Beach Country Club / Golf area. There are some by the airport.
    
    
11. "The Mall" means central location where all the shopping is - including standalone businesses and strip centers and that's at 20th (Rt 60) at 58th Ave. 60W the street that takes you to I-95 and also has a lot of housing on it. All types including with golf. That's Vero Beach West Corridor. It's a good central area to be in. Yes, it's busy. The beach is only around 3 miles east to the bridge and another 3 miles to the water. There is more shopping on Indian River Blvd at 23rd Miracle Mile you want to see, also for the vibe of it. Housing & shopping all around both central places.
    
    
12. The “end” of the rural area with some housing density is around 53rd St. off of the North South streets: 58th, 66th, 74th, 82nd Avenues….or right above there but there is housing all the way North on all those streets until you hit Sebastian.

[runswithscissors]

Pictures of The Laurels partial screened courtyard with no pool.

One door goes out to the yard the other one goes into the bedroom/office.

Great for pets, too.

[Icemodeled]

Thank you runwithscissors for your in depth response! I don't just judge based on crime rates(these can sometimes be deceiving) but more so from posts on here regarding the crime, or lack of. I have read and been told that there are "dangerous" areas(ex. Gifford) that isn't entirely safe as well as ft peirce areas. This is based on only research I have done mostly online. I also did not base it off of ONLY the visit to Walmart. Of course it's a Walmart and I know for whatever reason it seems to attract that kind of people but the Walmart in Sebastian which was about the same busy wise, was noticeably different in the way it looked and how people were. We do not have a target in our town, so yes, we choose Walmart but mainly because it was the first store we noticed when we decided we wanted some snacks. I shop at Walmart, not usually for grocery but I do go there. Again, it was just a bad first impression(being first thing we saw) but I am not basing my entire opinion off of it in any way.

I think it's a beautiful town, beach, downtown and parks. We did some antiquing as well. The mall was pretty dead even though it has a lot of shops. The outlet mall was quiet nice and we loved the setup verses other outlets we have been to.

We found the realtor online and no, we do not have any kids. Late 20s. Our budget is $130k and paying cash, as I rather not take out a loan. We COULD go higher, but we are trying not to. I have been watching for about a year now and noticed home prices rising, I also see less inventory then before. Possibly before we actually purchase things could change. I know people are predicting another small recession(who knows if and when).

We have discussed condos, but I am not sure as we have only ever owned a home. Not sure if we can get use to the closeness of neighbors like that. Certainly pros and cons. We are open to it, possibly. We will certainly keep researching and exploring the area.

Thanks again for the response and info!

[runswithscissors]

OK so, yes, you're probably not going to find much in the way of a 1500 sq ft. single house, 3/2 for $130K. Most of those were snatched up a long time ago. I just noticed you had another previous thread with a budget of $120K.

I wish I had seen that because like everyone else I could have told you forget it. LOL.

There are a couple of <$130K starter homes in those small neighborhoods like the one you saw - Citrus Gardens. Same as the one you saw in PSL on Calamoso.

BTW no, the crime rates are accurate. Our Crime Rate is at a 13 year low at a whopping 212 LOL.

Ft Pierce is one of the most dangerous cities in the state at 612. But at least it's down from 1107.

The only one that's wrong on City Data is the sex offender percentages because they are doing the math wrong. They're using offenders from all over the MSA of 150K people including as far as Fellsmere....and dividing them by the finite population of CITY of Vero Beach pop 17K instead of the 150K,

https://www.city-data.com/city/Vero-Beach-Florida.html

Have fun looking!

PS There's one in Vero with a screened pool on Trulia that looks nice.

ETA: The Mall is a mess because of the real estate crash and the owner (I think Simon) was underwater, went into foreclosure and is in receivership. No stores are moving in there. I think they filed bankruptcy this past year. It got sold back to the bank for $100.00

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/nobody-su...332810871.html

[quattrohead]

OP, you will be able to find a property in that price range with an all cash deal but you will have to move decisively to do so.
Get a list of possibility's from a realtor using the MLS (Zillow data is out of date) and whittle it down. Include pricing up to $150k, cash is KING !!!
Go down there and look at all of them on your list and make a few offers.
I can give you my realtor down there, she is great you will love working with her.

There are 25 properties today meeting your basic requirements in PSL, 3/2/2 1500+ $110k to $150K
PM me here.