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Old 01-15-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,501,068 times
Reputation: 4186

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
In other words, The State determines morality. There is no higher Law.
Our union was invested with a high ideal of morality in the form of the Bill of Rights.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:45 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,247,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post

And that, my friends, is the endgame of our tragic dance with liberalism.


So move.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:45 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,794,776 times
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This is very true!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The same thing that protects your freedom to practice your religion. The Constitution of the United States. Which protects ALL religious beliefs in the United States. Even the ones you find morally repugnant.
The irony here is that if I am not mistaken, much of the foundation of the religious pluralism WP decries, was brought about because his own faith, Roman Catholicism, was being marginalized and discriminated against by Protestants. To turn around and decry these same principles, after they have worked well to integrate and normalize his faith into American society, is incredibly hypocritical.

I was raised in a fundamentalist Protestant environment and taught that the Catholic Church was "The ***** of Babylon", and was an integral part of Satan's attempts to deceive real believers. I am sure he is not interested in allowing the folks who believe that to set the rules for what is acceptable religious belief.

Granted I am speaking as an outsider to the faith at this point, but it seems to me that Christianity is about personal responsibility and if God refuses to remove our free will to spare us from hell, why should believers feel that they are justified in limiting others' personal religious choices? Even in Christianity, each person must account to God for himself and himself only. It seems positively un-Christian to try to force people by social pressure or force of law to abandon or hide their religious choices.

-NoCapo
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
7,604 posts, read 6,110,858 times
Reputation: 7045
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Might I ask, what skin is it off your backside if Satanists pray in school? How does it infringe your freedom any more, or less, than Christians praying in school infringes on mine?
It is the same thing....a socially accepted way of talking to oneself.... which is what prayer is....
(And yes, we have empiracle , testable data that demonstrates that)

I am not aware of which Satanic group this is, living here in Florida, I will have to look into it.
They do not sound like an offshoot of LaVey Satanism, which would teach respect only to those who deserve it, intolerance to those who offend, as well as the superiority of the human species over all other.

It does bring up a good point though. In America, religious liberty goes for EVERYONE....even the evil scientologists. That much is absolute. If the Christians, for example, or any other group are unhappy when their Deity is not chosen or acknowledged, then they need to look at themselves and the product they are presenting. They can go crying to the government or whoever and cry about it, but in the end, they need to offer a better product than the other religions if they expect to compete in a capitalistic society. In other words, if people don't buy your god, then there is not something wrong with them....maybe there is something wrong with your god?
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:46 PM
 
724 posts, read 594,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Some manifestations of religious expression are dangerous. Mohammedan jihad, for example, is certainly religious but ought to be suppressed.

Religious liberty is not an absolute good.

In the United States, freedom of religion is a constitutionally guaranteed right provided in the religion clauses of the First Amendment. Freedom of religion is also closely associated with separation of church and state, a concept advocated by Thomas Jefferson.

A public school is a US government institution, ergo, it is the students constitutionally protected right to express any religious view that they please.

You have no argument and this and all of your previous arguments on the matter smack of fascism.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:46 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,617,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Our union was invested with a high ideal of morality in the form of the Bill of Rights.
The Bill of Rights presupposes a higher morality than the Constitution. To elevate the Constitution as an ultimate moral standard is to betray the Constitution itself.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,501,068 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
The Bill of Rights presupposes a higher morality than the Constitution.
Inasmuch as they are amendments to the Constitution, that is evident. In any other sense, that is not at all clear.

Quote:
To elevate the Constitution as an ultimate moral standard is to betray the Constitution itself.
The Constitution does not define or specify an ultimate moral standard. It is our ultimate legal standard, not necessarily anyone's ultimate moral one--though why it could not be that also, is unclear. It's at least as good as a lot of other "moral standards" that have been put forward.

Last edited by djacques; 01-15-2013 at 06:10 PM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,251,253 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
In other words, The State determines morality. There is no higher Law.

And that, my friends, is the endgame of our tragic dance with liberalism.
Have you thought about migrating to a country that has Christianity as their Law? Sounds like you would be much happier in that country.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,501,068 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Have you thought about migrating to a country that has Christianity as their Law? Sounds like you would be much happier in that country.
Indeed...and most other Christians in this country, of all persuasions, seem to be thankful for our common heritage of religious freedom. Silly them, eh?
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:28 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,124,366 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Satanists rally for Florida governor:

"The Satanic Temple embraces the free expression of religion, and Satanists are happy to show their support of Rick Scott who -- particularly with SB 98 -- has reaffirmed our American freedom to practice our faith openly, allowing our Satanic children the freedom to pray in school."

"Satanic children"will be permitted to read - presumably aloud - inspirational messages of their choosing at school activities and events, without "mediation" or approval of school administrators.

"He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth." - Matt 12:30
So you'd ban other people's religion?

Disgusting.
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