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Clarence Thomas is a self loathing black man period. Its so obvious.
So there's absolutely no way, shape, or form, a black man can be opposed to affirmative action without being ashamed of the color of his skin? Clarence Thomas' reasons for opposing affirmative action are far different from William Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia, or any self-described "angry white man" for that matter. You can tell that by reading Thomas' opinions, concurrences, and dissents. You can tell that by reading interviews with the man.
Although Clarence Thomas has written his views on preferential policies in his Supreme Court opinions, the release of his book and his interview with ABC News provide an opportunity for the justice to explain, more thoroughly then ever before, why he thinks racial preferences are wrong and detrimental.
His views have long vexed civil rights groups, but they also differ from the traditional conservative outlook and might re-shape the nation's debate over affirmative action. While conservatives often talk about leveling the playing field for society as a whole, Thomas focuses on the stigmatizing effect affirmative action has on those it is meant to help.
Again, I'm not saying you should like, or necessarily even respect, Clarence Thomas, but blindly brushing off people who disagree with you as "self-loathing" is not only unfair, it's intellectually lazy.
Clarence Thomas is a self loathing black man period. Its so obvious.
Not to me, it isn't.
But I'm personally neither black nor self-loathing, so I wouldn't be able to personally identify with that.
What makes it so obvious? Is it just Thomas' conservative views? His dislike for the civil rights establishment that has given him so little respect over the past quarter century?
Are there conservative African Americans who you wouldn't identify as "self loathing"? Is Cain self loathing? How about Walter E Williams, Dr. Sowell or Ambassador Keyes?
Clarence Thomas is a poster child for a self loathing black man. Name one black cultural event, gala, benefit or organization that he is a part of or supports? Name one? No NAACP image award for him. He could at least represent the 100 Black Men organization.
How about all the white guys who aren't part of clubs explicitly dedicated to promoting and celebrating white men? Does that make them self loathing whites because they don't belong to organizations associated with self-consciously promoting white advancement? A person who did that would be labeled a racist and white supremacist rather quickly.
The extremely different political views aside, maybe Clarence Thomas isn't a self loathing black man any more than Noam Chomsky is a self-loathing Jew - just someone who isn't preoccupied with a characteristic that others let define them and their political agendas.
Geez there seem to be a lot of threads about this sort of thing lately.
You seem confused. Affirmative action does not exist to put on puppet shows for kids or buy them toys for Christmas. The whole point is to let a black firm drink from the same political-insider crony-capitalism gravy-train that others have been drinking from since the 1040's. It's one of the primary ways people build wealth... this is the ultimate goal so I have no idea what you're complaining about. Like Nixon said "a piece of the pie"
He is also a self loathing conservative black republican with a white wife. I would take that arguement with a grain of salt. Use Colin Powell as an example. A moderate republican with a black wife. He is held in high regard by most black people.
IMO wpipkins made the mistake of discrediting an African-American on his "blackness", because anyone who is fare-dark skined & born with at least 50% African-American/West Indian/African ancestry is black! Although from a quick google search, my take as an AA, is that this Clarence Thomas guy is a sell out or Uncle Tom. IMO that is fare, as there are members of the black elite out there that do qualify as sell outs and/or Uncle Toms! Collin Powell, a black republican, does not qualify as a sell out/Uncle Tom and its NOT because he grew up poor/in the struggle nor the misconception that he is half white.
Interesting thread. I'm not sure why it is whenever a story about discrimination appears, the blacks "have" affirmative action argument comes out. Do those individuals not have a fundamental understanding of what affirmative action is? The federal government doesn't cut "affirmative action" checks to people. Affirmative action operates like benchmarks. A private entity can pretty much do whatever it wants to in relationship to dodging affirmative action as long as the private entity is not asking for federal money. Outside of the dangled carrot of federal money, anything pertaining to affirmative action is completely unenforceable. You can hire any color babysitter, nanny, maid, or lawn guy you want to. It is not until you start employing at least a small workforce and start asking for tax credits and exemptions from the IRS do you even appear as a blip on the radar.
Why is Pittsburgh so much more successful than Baltimore? Pittsburgh is a much "whiter" metropolitan area, thus has disproportionately more white females. Newsflash: white females are the leading beneficiaries for affirmative action programs. Sorry if this information shocks anyone but it has been around for nearly 20 years at this point. Please feel free to read this Philadelphia Inquirer article, FROM 1995!
Women faired better than men overall but none moreso than white women:
women appear to be making the greatest strides in getting to the top of corporate America, according to a survey contained in the federal Glass Ceiling Commission's report, a three-year study released yesterday.
It shows that while 4 percent of executive vice presidents were women in 1982, 9 percent held the job by 1992. In the same period, the percentage of women among senior vice presidents grew from 13 percent to 23 percent.
Some might argue that those numbers are still pathetic, but they're far better than the statistics showing how blacks are doing. Blacks at the level of vice president or above accounted for 1 percent in 1982 and 2.3 percent a decade later. Hispanics made up 1.3 percent and then 2 percent. Asians represented 0.4 percent and then 1.8 percent.
When it comes to wages, white women's jumped the highest - 119 percent - from 1979 to 1993, according to figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Black women's wages grew 106 percent, white men's 78 percent, and black men's 72 percent.
Even so, white men still come out on top, with wages more than 30 percent higher than everyone else's.
The disproportionately large white female Pittsburgh population is also beneficial to the metropolitan area's economy because for those women who are welfare recipients, white females are more likely to benefit from the programs and less likely to be discriminated against or negatively impacted by the administration of the programs. Please feel free to read this study from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights in the six-year wake of the landmark welfare reform Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA) passed in 1996. Pay particular attention to Section II.
-Significantly more people of color than white respondents are required to perform “workfare,” working for a welfare check rather than actual wages.
-One out of six women welfare recipients has experienced sexual harassment in her work activity.
-More than a third of women have experienced personally invasive behavior from welfare officials with regard to their sex lives.
-62 percent of recipients whose first language is not English report experiencing significant language barriers.
-Black and Native American recipients are much more likely to have been sanctioned than members of other racial groups.
-Whites are more likely to receive child care subsidies (70 percent) than other groups, with Native Americans being least likely (42 percent).
-White women in some jurisdictions are more likely to receive TANF benefits for unborn children than women of color.
Last but certainly not least, white women disproportionately benefit from the only true quota system I can think of which is Title IX. Once again, all women benefit, but none moreso than white females:
So if metropolitan Pittsburgh is the least diverse large metro area, the metro area is disproportionately white, and white women are the leading recipients of what are incorrectly referred to as "entitlements", then why does it offend so many sensibilites to say that minorities lag behind in Pittsburgh?
He is also a self loathing conservative black republican with a white wife. I would take that arguement with a grain of salt. Use Colin Powell as an example. A moderate republican with a black wife. He is held in high regard by most black people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uptown kid
IMO wpipkins made the mistake of discrediting an African-American on his "blackness", because anyone who is fare-dark skined & born with at least 50% African-American/West Indian/African ancestry is black! Although from a quick google search, my take as an AA, is that this Clarence Thomas guy is a sell out or Uncle Tom. IMO that is fare, as there are members of the black elite out there that do qualify as sell outs and/or Uncle Toms! Collin Powell, a black republican, does not qualify as a sell out/Uncle Tom and its NOT because he grew up poor/in the struggle nor the misconception that he is half white.
It's offensive to read these men being is judged by the race of who they married. Wpipkins not only commented on Thomas' white wife, but the fairness of his first wife's skin too. That's just downright sick. Oh, and Powell is a better man because he married a black woman.
I often read wpipkins commenting that people aren't black enough. His comments remind me of something I read in the news recently about the South African president telling black people to not own dogs for pets because that was acting white. Never mind people might want to own dogs for pets for the sheer joy of owning a pet. Or marry a person of a different race simply because they love someone.
There's too much old fashioned, backwards judgment here. Everyone should be free to be who the Hell they want without society of any race judging how they are going about their lives. They should marry who they want without the same damn judgments too.
It's offensive to read these men being is judged by the race of who they married. Wpipkins not only commented on Thomas' white wife, but the fairness of his first wife's skin too. That's just downright sick. Oh, and Powell is a better man because he married a black woman.
Lol that not why he's a sell out... I where did I say that?
Even the Pittsburgh's black upper middle class who live scattered in the majority white Western/North/Wastern suburbs, and send their children to predominately white independent or public schools give back and identify themselves as black. They form all black social clubs, lead youth groups/organize community events etc. For example, the elite black doctors from Highmark to UMPC to local hospitals have black doctors clubs... And black lawyers, leaders in education, and bankers support each other (respectively) along with the community with organized exposer events as well.
Search 50 men or women of excellence or the Jack and Jill of America presentation ball. Look at the names of local importance on Wylie Avenue and/or at the August Wilson Center... Those are non sell outs.
A black sell out/uncle tom is a successful man or woman involved in corporate America who either forgot about or betrayed their heritage/background or never grew up acknowledging it... Furthermore, they betray their black counter parts especially by refuting association & neglecting the majority of the population (ie. poor-working class living in big city to backwoods ghettos). In addition they don't identify themselves as black when they can get away with it, and will do anything to stay in good standing with "the man" including or neglecting or suppressing fellow blacks. A sell out/Uncle Tom is not an assimilated professional trying to act notably civilized and keep a job, but a self-confused racist jerk who wishes he/she were born white.
@ wpipkings: A sell out/Uncle Tom is not a so called "Oreo," (a upper to middle class individual who lives a life more similar to your average white American than black)!
@ Hopes: I didn't say I thought a sell out/Uncle Tom is someone with "Jungle Fever" lol. There would be thousands of "sell outs," in Texas and Mississippi if that atrocity were true!
Last edited by Uptown kid; 05-09-2013 at 09:04 PM..
I honestly think the negative points about Clarence Thomas, his "self" hate, and his "white" wife are being misconstrued or at least misunderstood to a point. I'm with everyone who says that having a black wife versus a white wife doesn't giveanymore credibility than Clarence Thomas. Colin Powell just has more credibility in general. I think if you are not particularly familiar with Clarence Thomas you should read up on him. It may give you a sense of why Thomas is hated on the political "left" and absolutely reviled among African Americans.
Despite being Republican, Colin Powell acknowledges that desegregation and affirmative action policies aided his military career and that he would not eliminate such policies because they turned the military into America's closest approximation to a true meritocracy. African Americans by and large don't vote Republican but it is hard to look at Colin Powell's story (his immigrant parents pulling themselves up by the bootstraps but Powell acknowledging discrimination still existed when he joined the service and then how these policies leveled the playing field) and then argue against Colin Powell.
Clarence Thomas, OTOH, acknowledged the discrimination that occurred against him and apparently at one point was an activist who help found the Black Student Union at Holy Cross. However, later in his career due to his political ambitions riding the coattails of notable conservatives (being repeatedly appointed by his political connections) he chose to use his role as Reagan and Bush I's Chair of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) to NOT challenge lack of equal employment opportunities for blacks. I can't use his exact language here on City-Data but let's just say Clarence Thomas accused all blacks of a not so nice term for "whining".
Despite the Republican doctrine of self-reliance, Bush I nominated him for the Supreme Court. Not because he was imminently qualified. Because the black Thurgood Marshall was retiring and Bush wanted to replace him with another black and Clarence Thomas was the only reliable black conservative he could find, despite how UNQUALIFIED he was. African Americans and certainly white liberals would have preferred someone else besides Thomas. He is the penultimate perversion of racial preferences. He is likely the highest level beneficiary of a racial preference ever and has done nothing in his career but fight against em.Thomas has done nothing but benefit from cronyism his entire career then slammed the door in the face of others behind him, notably blacks. African Americans hate Clarence Thomas.
And the white wife part? It is not so much that his wife is white, but the fact that Clarence Thomas was this family values shill who trumpeted the true ills of blacks were not discrimination but teenage pregnancy and illiteracy. So Mr. Family Values Black Women Are Baby Mamas And Look At Me With My White Wife Who Of Course Genetically Has No Proclivities Toward Such Dramas then turns around and sexually harrasses Anita Hill, a black woman. When confronted with her testimony at his confirmatiion hearings, Clarence Thomas, ye of conservative egalitarianism, turned around and played THE RACE CARD! Despite his known advances to specifically black women staffers, Thomas accussed the U.S. Senate of a "high-tech lynching" because they portrayed him as an "uppity black"! Thomas's confirmation squeaked by with the narrowest confirmation margin in a hundred years at this point and Anita Hill was railroaded out of her position at the University of Oklahoma School of Law by Oklahoma Conservatives.
As it turns out, Anita Hill was quite influential in highlighting sexual harrasment in the workplace and it is believed her testimony provoked Bush I's opposition of a bill allowing harrassment victims from being able to receive damages and back pay from the federal government. Hill was actually able to rebound from the severe misfortune of having ever been a staffer of Clarence Thomas and established a successful career as a professor and women's rights activist. Just when it was all said and done, or at least you thought, in 2010 Clarence Thomas's wife made a public spectacle of herself by leaving a harrassing voicemail for Anita Hill demanding she apologize for what SHE did to Clarence Thomas! I don't think this is a function of Thomas's wife being white, but be aware that there is no love lost between Clarence Thomas and the African American community and certainly not between highly educated professional African American women and Clarence Thomas's wife! Sorry that this deviated from the specific point of discrimination in Pittsburgh, but those who have invoked the Curious Case of Clarence Thomas are correct in that it is instructive of how particular sectors are not going to attract professional blacks (particularly black women) if there is this hanging perception harrassment will be tolerated in the workforce. From my perspective the "steel mill" legacy of Pittsburgh reinforces a stereotype that women and minorities will not get a fair shake in Pittsburgh.
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