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Old 02-13-2013, 02:36 PM
 
12 posts, read 14,379 times
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One of the things that really irritates me in society is suggesting that everyone can be well off by working hard. Sometimes even after trying hard you fail. This approach makes the assumption that we are all healthy, gifted with the same talents, that those talents are all equally economically profitable.

I think teenagers nowadays are really thinking about their future strategically when it comes to planning a career especially after the financial crises we faced and seeing parents and relatives laid off. My son does want a high quality of life. He wants to work in a field that isn't likely to be outsourced. We also know that there are children more talented than him who want to go into his chosen field. He tries to overcome this by studying harder but is sometimes discouraged by those who suggest only the "brightest" should go into such fields. Is it really want to want a good quality of life despite the cards you were given by nature? Should people really accept that they deserve less no matter how hard they work because others were born "smarter" than them?

What do you do with a child who has more ambition than natural talent?
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:04 PM
 
4,787 posts, read 11,758,510 times
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The question becomes does he have what it takes to graduate with degree in his field? Is he looking at a field that requires a master's degree after college ?

There are so many variables. Once you're out of college and actually working no one will ask what your college grade point average was, unless you need to continue on with more schooling. When was the last time you went to your local pharmacy and asked the pharmacist if he graduated with honors from college?
If someone can make it through the course work, graduate, find a job, then all that matters if how well you can do the job.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:04 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 5,585,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_DW View Post
One of the things that really irritates me in society is suggesting that everyone can be well off by working hard. Sometimes even after trying hard you fail. This approach makes the assumption that we are all healthy, gifted with the same talents, that those talents are all equally economically profitable.

I think teenagers nowadays are really thinking about their future strategically when it comes to planning a career especially after the financial crises we faced and seeing parents and relatives laid off. My son does want a high quality of life. He wants to work in a field that isn't likely to be outsourced. We also know that there are children more talented than him who want to go into his chosen field. He tries to overcome this by studying harder but is sometimes discouraged by those who suggest only the "brightest" should go into such fields. Is it really want to want a good quality of life despite the cards you were given by nature? Should people really accept that they deserve less no matter how hard they work because others were born "smarter" than them?

What do you do with a child who has more ambition than natural talent?
Hard work is very important. In grad school I complained to one of my professors that I didn't feel I was really smart enough to go into the field. He pointed out to me that the majority of people in the field were just ordinary people who work hard, not geniuses. Sure there are a few brilliant people, but most are just hardworking and ambitious. There will always be someone more talented, but there aren't too many fields where hard work, ambition, and people skills are not a recipe for success.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,927,052 times
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"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard."

But I will never be a CPA regardless of how hard I work. It is not one of my natural skillsets, and I have to recognize that and find something I am good at that also will allow me to support myself.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Boerne area
705 posts, read 1,759,236 times
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Hard work goes a long way, and I would hesitate to discourage ambitions and have him give up on his dream. However, in many fields of study there are a variety of careers to pursue. If he wants to be a doctor but cannot get the grades, there are multiple health related careers to consider: technicians, EMTs, nurses, physician's assistants, etc. A lawyer? How about a legal assistant, paralegal, court reporter, etc.

Try to figure out what he finds appealing about the career field he has chosen, and discuss all options with him - have a plan B, C..... More important that the status of the job is the long term happiness and fulfillment of the individual...
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:35 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,728,104 times
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I think one of the problems is what does it mean to "work hard".

I know kids who think doing their homework and studying for half an hour a night is "working hard". It really isn't. What it it called, the "10,000 hour rule". Meaning you are working hard on something when that is the amount of time you expect to put in to excel at it.

I don't know many typical people who cannot excel at something when they work at that definition of "working hard".
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:45 AM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,904,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_DW View Post
One of the things that really irritates me in society is suggesting that everyone can be well off by working hard. Sometimes even after trying hard you fail. This approach makes the assumption that we are all healthy, gifted with the same talents, that those talents are all equally economically profitable.

I think teenagers nowadays are really thinking about their future strategically when it comes to planning a career especially after the financial crises we faced and seeing parents and relatives laid off. My son does want a high quality of life. He wants to work in a field that isn't likely to be outsourced. We also know that there are children more talented than him who want to go into his chosen field. He tries to overcome this by studying harder but is sometimes discouraged by those who suggest only the "brightest" should go into such fields. Is it really want to want a good quality of life despite the cards you were given by nature? Should people really accept that they deserve less no matter how hard they work because others were born "smarter" than them?

What do you do with a child who has more ambition than natural talent?
To a certain extent you do have to accept that a person might not be smart enough or athletic enough or artistic enough to do what they really really want to do. I would love to be a professional opera singer but I am not good enough. I'm better than average but not good enough to be a professional. I work harder than anyone at my singing, but the aptitude is simply not there. It would be irresponsible of anyone to tell me that if I just work harder I could reach that goal. The talent is not there. I have a lovely voice but not good enough.

I think you need to find a balance. That said, hard work and a willingness to work at things are very very desirable traits. I would not ever discourage that in a young person.

I think you have to make decisions based on your own child and his aptitudes, not what other people think. If you think his aspirations are unattainable for him you need to tell him that. But what you tell him and when you tell him depends on his age. I would be careful not to make a premature assessment about the abilities of a very young child. I would also be careful to encourage a child to take a path that you think is a waste of time and money.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:53 AM
 
2,612 posts, read 5,585,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
To a certain extent you do have to accept that a person might not be smart enough or athletic enough or artistic enough to do what they really really want to do. I would love to be a professional opera singer but I am not good enough. I'm better than average but not good enough to be a professional. I work harder than anyone at my singing, but the aptitude is simply not there. It would be irresponsible of anyone to tell me that if I just work harder I could reach that goal. The talent is not there. I have a lovely voice but not good enough.

I think you need to find a balance. That said, hard work and a willingness to work at things are very very desirable traits. I would not ever discourage that in a young person.

I think you have to make decisions based on your own child and his aptitudes, not what other people think. If you think his aspirations are unattainable for him you need to tell him that. But what you tell him and when you tell him depends on his age. I would be careful not to make a premature assessment about the abilities of a very young child. I would also be careful to encourage a child to take a path that you think is a waste of time and money.
I didn't think we were talking about singing or acting or something unattainable like that. I thought we were talking about an academic field, like he wants to be a scientist or engineer or something. If it's an artistic field then that's a waste of time even if you do have talent. The odds of financial success are just against everyone.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:14 AM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,904,587 times
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Originally Posted by marie5v View Post
I didn't think we were talking about singing or acting or something unattainable like that. I thought we were talking about an academic field, like he wants to be a scientist or engineer or something. If it's an artistic field then that's a waste of time even if you do have talent. The odds of financial success are just against everyone.
Isn't it really the same thing though? It is a matter of matching your expectations to your abilities. Not everyone will achieve their goal even if the goal is attainable. But I would not encourage someone to try to attain a goal that it is not possible for them to attain. That holds for academics, athletics, art, music, theater, etc...

If you have a child who wants to be doctor and you know he is not smart enough to achieve that goal why would you encourage him to take that path? If he is smart enough he still might not achieve his goal but if he isn't smart enough it is certain that he won't achieve his goal.

I think the real problem is that parents are not the best ones to assess their child's ability.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:08 AM
 
1,515 posts, read 2,273,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
To a certain extent you do have to accept that a person might not be smart enough or athletic enough or artistic enough to do what they really really want to do. I would love to be a professional opera singer but I am not good enough. I'm better than average but not good enough to be a professional. I work harder than anyone at my singing, but the aptitude is simply not there. It would be irresponsible of anyone to tell me that if I just work harder I could reach that goal. The talent is not there. I have a lovely voice but not good enough.

I think you need to find a balance. That said, hard work and a willingness to work at things are very very desirable traits. I would not ever discourage that in a young person.

I think you have to make decisions based on your own child and his aptitudes, not what other people think. If you think his aspirations are unattainable for him you need to tell him that. But what you tell him and when you tell him depends on his age. I would be careful not to make a premature assessment about the abilities of a very young child. I would also be careful to encourage a child to take a path that you think is a waste of time and money.
Great post. It is a fine balance of encouraging or giving a dose of reality to a young person. My daughter thinks that she is going to be a famous singer and rich beyond imagination. Personally, I try to close my ears when she is singing around the house but try to never say anything negative aside from, "K--, please keep it down a bit." Much to my surprise, she got selected for advanced choir in her school this year and her teacher speaks highly of her lovely voice. I just keep my mouth shut and am very neutral, of course praising her when they have a recital. I'm not going to feed into the whole thing of, "Oh, you are the best and will be rich and famous some day." Frankly, even if my daughter had the most remarkable voice in the world, she doesn't like to work hard and probably doesn't have the ambition to really practice. I've tried explaining that these rich and famous celebs she sees probably do work their butts off with rehearsals, etc. I think it is a phase and perhaps if she really does want to get good at something, she will put in the effort. Unfortunately, she hasn't learned that lesson yet.

Many years ago, I was talking adult piano lessons. The teacher's husband had been a concert pianist but wasn't that successful and was actually the classical music critic for the metropolitan paper in our area (talk about being nervous playing when he was home, lol). I enjoyed talking with him about the piano. He made one comment to me that stuck with me about practicing. To be really exceptional at the piano, many artists would practice up to 8 hours a day!! Even if they were gifted, long practices were a way of life. He didn't have the stamina or the natural talent to really make it to the top.
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