[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

I know people where I live refer to southern missouri as well as all of Arkansas as the Midwest. They are just ill informed. If you asked some of them where the Midwest was they would probably think it includes Arkansas southern Missouri all of Oklahoma and parts of Tennessee and Kentucky. Then again if you asked them where the south was they would probably list the same areas!!!

The core area of the Midwest is generally along and north of 40N latitude in my opinion. This INCLUDES the Corn Belt.

[Zachj7]

Which States Are in the South? | FiveThirtyEight

Moving on...

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by Zachj7

Which States Are in the South? | FiveThirtyEight

Moving on...

Oh dad gumit! You done gone and done it this time! You will be called everything from an Obama loving liberal to a God hating gay activist! I swear to God you will wish you were never born! LOL

[Studying Okie]

Originally Posted by Zachj7

Which States Are in the South? | FiveThirtyEight

Moving on...

I have seen this article before a few months back.

Here's the article from FiveThirtyEight about the Midwest

And the one about the South

Here is an overview of data that the FiveThirtyEight website links to

According to that last one 65% of people in Oklahoma think its in the Midwest, and 53% of people in Oklahoma think its the South. As you can see there's overlap.

I continue to think that Oklahomans have a different definition of Midwest than people from the Census Bureau definition of the Midwest.

According to that data 45% of Oklahomans think that Arkansas is part of the Midwest while 6% think that Kentucky is part of the Midwest.

Also according to that data only 27% of Oklahomans think that Michigan and Wisconsin are part of the Midwest, 37% think Ohio is part of the Midwest, and 51% think that Illinois is part of the Midwest.

And 100% of Alaskans think Oklahoma is in the South! Go figure!

Also, take the percentages with a grain of salt; the states' sample sizes vary greatly.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by Studying Okie

I have seen this article before a few months back.

Here's the article from FiveThirtyEight about the Midwest

And the one about the South

Here is an overview of data that the FiveThirtyEight website links to

According to that last one 65% of people in Oklahoma think its in the Midwest, and 53% of people in Oklahoma think its the South. As you can see there's overlap.

I continue to think that Oklahomans have a different definition of Midwest than people from the Census Bureau definition of the Midwest.

According to that data 45% of Oklahomans think that Arkansas is part of the Midwest while 6% think that Kentucky is part of the Midwest.

Also according to that data only 27% of Oklahomans think that Michigan and Wisconsin are part of the Midwest, 37% think Ohio is part of the Midwest, and 51% think that Illinois is part of the Midwest.

And 100% of Alaskans think Oklahoma is in the South! Go figure!

Also, take the percentages with a grain of salt; the states' sample sizes vary greatly.

You do such a good job at getting your point across without drama and name calling or by changing the geography of our state. One poster on here is convince that pretty much the only part of the state that is part of the Great Plains is the very NW tip and the Panhandle.

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by Studying Okie

I have seen this article before a few months back.

Here's the article from FiveThirtyEight about the Midwest

And the one about the South

Here is an overview of data that the FiveThirtyEight website links to

According to that last one 65% of people in Oklahoma think its in the Midwest, and 53% of people in Oklahoma think its the South. As you can see there's overlap.

I continue to think that Oklahomans have a different definition of Midwest than people from the Census Bureau definition of the Midwest.

According to that data 45% of Oklahomans think that Arkansas is part of the Midwest while 6% think that Kentucky is part of the Midwest.

Also according to that data only 27% of Oklahomans think that Michigan and Wisconsin are part of the Midwest, 37% think Ohio is part of the Midwest, and 51% think that Illinois is part of the Midwest.

And 100% of Alaskans think Oklahoma is in the South! Go figure!

Also, take the percentages with a grain of salt; the states' sample sizes vary greatly.

I think what we can take from that is that a lot of people are geographically challenged.

A big problem with using the Census bureau as a guide is that they are forced to pidgeon hole states into a region when in many ways the whole state isn't really representative of that region.

For an example. Southern California and the upper reaches of Northern California are in two completely different regions. A person from Yreka, CA has more in common with an Oregonian than he/she does a Los Angeleno.

Or Montana. Someone who is from eastern Montana has more in common with an individual in north Dakota than they do with someone from western Montana.

Oklahoma is more nuanced but no different. A person in Alva is more likely to be more like a person in southwest Kansas than they are to be like somebody from Idabel. And a person from Hollis is more likely to like somebody from the mesquite plains of Texas than they are someone from Miami, Ok, who's lineage lies with the southern Ozark highlanders.

The wildcard in Oklahoma is the oil industry. It is my contention that encroachment of southerners into the area of Oklahoma which was originally populated by non southerners has occurred historically as the oil patch moved into that area which generally occurred after the 1950s so in that regard I will agree with Johnny Special. There has been more migration of southerners into the northwestern part of Oklahoma than vice versa as traditionally many oil field workers tend to come from Texas and jobs for Oklahomans in the job poor parts of the eastern parts of the state.

[Zachj7]

Originally Posted by okie1962

Oh dad gumit! You done gone and done it this time! You will be called everything from an Obama loving liberal to a God hating gay activist! I swear to God you will wish you were never born! LOL

Just trying to lure out John and Bass. I miss them defending OK is strictly south.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by Zachj7

Just trying to lure out John and Bass. I miss them defending OK is strictly south.

LOL. I didn't know I had the reputation of an apologist.

"Strictly" is way too strong of a word. I totally agree that Oklahoma is NOT the Deep South. If Deep South = South the Oklahoma ain't it. If Deep South = South, then in reality there are only four or five, maybe six states which qualify.

I've always maintained that Oklahoma is a hybrid: SouthXSouthwest (or even SouthXWest) captures the feeling and culture of Oklahoma. South-Central works perfectly because that's what we are geographically.

Moreover, I believe the inquiry of the thread is off base. A much more accurate query based on culture and geography would be: "Should Oklahoma be considered a West state, a Southern state, or both?"

Having spent time in undeniable Midwest states (see the Census Bureau's definition) the Midwest tag, while there are Midwestern elements here and there, is the least accurate appellation to associate with Oklahoma as a whole.

Also, I have challenged many of you to go over to the General Forum many times. None so far have taken the challenge to convince the tried&True Midwesterners (like GraniteStater) that Oklahoma is in the same region as their state. The vast majority of the threads about the Midwest do not mention Oklahoma at all. Many of the threads about the South or associated with the South do mention Oklahoma. Go figure. There still is, and I believe for good reason, a national perception among many that Oklahoma, whatever it is, is more Southern than anything else.

Many knowledgeable Okies on this thread, such as EddieG, have acknowledged this reality. I do agree that along with our history, that the oil based economy, has been a huge draw for Southerners to continue to come to our state. It should come as no surprise that our culture is heavily influenced by our history, economy, and the people who choose to live here.

[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

LOL. I didn't know I had the reputation of an apologist.

"Strictly" is way too strong of a word. I totally agree that Oklahoma is NOT the Deep South. If Deep South = South the Oklahoma ain't it. If Deep South = South, then in reality there are only four or five, maybe six states which qualify.

I've always maintained that Oklahoma is a hybrid: SouthXSouthwest (or even SouthXWest) captures the feeling and culture of Oklahoma. South-Central works perfectly because that's what we are geographically.

Moreover, I believe the inquiry of the thread is off base. A much more accurate query based on culture and geography would be: "Should Oklahoma be considered a West state, a Southern state, or both?"

Having spent time in undeniable Midwest states (see the Census Bureau's definition) the Midwest tag, while there are Midwestern elements here and there, is the least accurate appellation to associate with Oklahoma as a whole.

I do agree that along with our history, that the oil based economy, has been a huge draw for Southerners to continue to come to our state. It should come as no surprise that our culture is heavily influenced by our history, economy, and the people who choose to live here.

I think the oil patch has drawn people from all over including a lot of people from other parts of the country. Moreover, I think the majority of southerners who have come here due to the oil patch are Texans as opposed to the deep south states.

Secondly, I am also of the agreement with some on here is that if the 'southwest' is identified as Arizona and New Mexico, then western Oklahoma and west Texas do not fit. However, if the southwest includes ranching, cattle, oil and the area from where the US changes from rainy to more arid, then I think they fit just fine.

And finally, I don't think of NW Oklahoma fits in the southwest as it is plains and to some degree more northern plains than southern plains when you consider the people, the climate, the vegetation etc. It is really a transition zone but it is more grassland than the southern plains which is less grassland and more desert like.

Oh, and thanks for the kind words.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

LOL. I didn't know I had the reputation of an apologist.

"Strictly" is way too strong of a word. I totally agree that Oklahoma is NOT the Deep South. If Deep South = South the Oklahoma ain't it. If Deep South = South, then in reality there are only four or five, maybe six states which qualify.

I've always maintained that Oklahoma is a hybrid: SouthXSouthwest (or even SouthXWest) captures the feeling and culture of Oklahoma. South-Central works perfectly because that's what we are geographically.

Moreover, I believe the inquiry of the thread is off base. A much more accurate query based on culture and geography would be: "Should Oklahoma be considered a West state, a Southern state, or both?"

Having spent time in undeniable Midwest states (see the Census Bureau's definition) the Midwest tag, while there are Midwestern elements here and there, is the least accurate appellation to associate with Oklahoma as a whole.

Also, I have challenged many of you to go over to the General Forum many times. None so far have taken the challenge to convince the tried&True Midwesterners (like GraniteStater) that Oklahoma is in the same region as their state. The vast majority of the threads about the Midwest do not mention Oklahoma at all. Many of the threads about the South or associated with the South do mention Oklahoma. Go figure. There still is, and I believe for good reason, a national perception among many that Oklahoma, whatever it is, is more Southern than anything else.

Many knowledgeable Okies on this thread, such as EddieG, have acknowledged this reality. I do agree that along with our history, that the oil based economy, has been a huge draw for Southerners to continue to come to our state. It should come as no surprise that our culture is heavily influenced by our history, economy, and the people who choose to live here.

I have taken your challenge and have notice a lot of times OK is called a Midwest state but your pretty quick to jump in and straighten them out...LOL Go to search and type in Oklahoma Midwest. The first thread I came across is titled "Which is the Midwest more alike culturally, historically, functionally?" The OP puts OK in the Midwest, bey post 5 you are in there to straighten them out...LOL Just saying friend.

But to be fair to my bud Bassy (I hope you don't mind me calling you Bassy) Most Americans couldn't find Oklahoma on the map. I bet my sister couldn't...LOL I'm not joking! From reading everyone's post on the various Oklahoma threads about our location status, I feel most of us, with the exception of John Special, do think OK is a Southern state but with strong influences from the SW and MW. We are where it all comes together, how the heck could we not have those influences?