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Hello all,
I am a single mom with a 3rd grader. I currently live in NYC. I am looking to move to NJ near family. I am focused on Bergen County. I am looking for a town with a good school system but that doesn't seem hard to find in this area. More specifically for me to find a place to live where I will be happy I am looking for a town that is liberal leaning, that has some alternative families where I can locate other single moms, and with a Jewish population but one that is predominantly reform as we are not that religious.
I am looking at Ridgewood, Leonia, Oradell, Westwood, Ramsey, and Mahwah.
I am open to other areas as well. Does anyone have any incite into a town that would fit for me? I have lived in NYC for over 20 years and it suddenly feels very daunting to find a suburban town to live that will feel like home.
I will be buying a home. I would prefer a townhouse but am open to a home. My price range is ~650-700K.
Thank you and I would appreciate in advise or tips.
I think you bring up an interesting point about a good school system -- that it doesn't seem that hard to find in Bergen County -- and while I can't speak to the specifics, statistics, and how a school system would actually be "rated" or the like, I agree with you.
That said, looking at lifestyle is also important -- and you mention, being happy, liberal leaning, alternative families, other single parents/moms, and a Jewish population (Reform). I think different people have different criteria, and more importantly, different definitions. Ridgewood, for example -- a great town in my opinion. However, friends of mine say it doesn't have a Jewish population. I say it does. I have numerous Jewish friends who live there. However, friends of mine say, well, there's only one temple/synagogue. I don't think that means it doesn't have a Jewish population. There's an entire discussion in and around that. That said, yes, I would look at Ridgewood. You won't find as many housing options, and dollar for dollar you might get "smaller" and "less land" compared to Mahwah and Ramsey. There are very, very few townhouse options in Ridgewood, and in your price range, you are looking "smaller" and "less" or "little" land. There's a bit of a "premium" for Ridgewood, so you won't find as much bang for your buck, but that's OK, as Ridgewood is a great town.
I lived in Ft. Lee for many years, and many of my closest friends lived in Leonia. Nice town, but not what I could or would consider an "young" and "upwardly moving, mobile, dynamic or charismatic town. It's a bit more "downscale" and I think the majority of the Jewish population is "aging" and are more Gen X, Y, etc., and not the millennial type. I think that's more demographic than lifestyle.
Ramsey and Mahwah -- like Ridgewood, great towns. Mahwah is the "biggest" town in Bergen County, not that it means anything, but there's a lot to offer. It doesn't have a downtown, walkable, city-type streets, but very few towns do, LOL. However, Ramsey is right next down, and it does have a "main drag" of a downtown, walkable, city-type street. It's not Ridgewood, but you can go downtown and walk around. Both Mahwah and Ramsey have a Jewish population. You will find a lot of divorcees, single parents, etc., in Mahwah. You will also get the maximum housing options in Mahwah. There are numerous townhouse developments, a high-rise, condo-styles, and single family homes. Your price range is a good on and you can find a variety. Ramsey won't have as many housing options, but you will certainly have some. Between the two, me personally, I'd pick Mahwah.
Oradell is a nice town as well. Has much of what the other towns have. Not as many housing options, and unless you are going for a very high priced home, you are probably going to get "smaller" and "less land" and so on and so on. I think you will find far less single parents there. I also think Oradell is "more expensive" so to speak, and it is closer to NYC than the others, but on this list, I would feel I am getting more elsewhere.
I am a single parent, although my daughter is out of the house now...but I still consider myself a single parent! LOL. All things considered, if I was going to move, wanted the biggest bang for my buck, wanted as much of all the things mentioned as possible...I would look at Ridgewood and Mahwah. More value and more bang for your buck in Mahwah.
Mahwah is already starting to have an invasion of orthodox Jewish groups pour over the border from Rockland county. I'd avoid Mahwah as it's very uncertain what will happen to that town.
Mahwah is already starting to have an invasion of orthodox Jewish groups pour over the border from Rockland county. I'd avoid Mahwah as it's very uncertain what will happen to that town.
There is no invasion. That is nothing more than the panic and fear that people overreact to. The influx of Orthodox is next to non-existent. More left Mahwah in the last 12 months than moved into Mahwah -- and that number is low double digits.
A few Orthodox families have bought homes on the east side, on the border of Mahwah. Nothing happened with that. Most actually don't live there on the weekends as they cannot practice their religion and abide by their rules. Orthodox have to be walking distance to shul/temple. There are no shuls/temples even close to walking distance -- nowhere in Mahwah. If they look to Suffern, Airmont, Montebello, etc. -- Mahwah doesn't suit the requirements. It's not convenient, unless they built temples here and that cannot happen for a variety of reasons -- not to the extent they would need in order to "invade" and "take over" the town. In the early days, in Lakewood, Monsey, and other towns, the Orthodox did the "temple without walls" (some people still call it a Chavarun (sp.?)), however, many towns passed laws -- not to prevent that, but to not have it become detrimental to the town, either quiet enjoyment, lifestyle, financially, etc. The circumstances, demographics, times, and more, were very different. When it's happened, and the results were not favorable to the entire town -- it happened in towns that were small, not as built up, didn't have the base that larger, more developed towns had.
While I am Jewish, and of course believe in the practice of one's religion, "too much" of anything can be problematic, and when it becomes a detriment to an entire community, then you have a problem -- regardless of whatever group or religion it is. Too much is not too much Orthodox -- it is too much of a concerted, hostile, and adversarial effort to change the landscape of a town and community, when it is to the detriment of others. Within the last two years, there were issues with solicitations of homeowners to sell their home. A few did. More than half of those people who bought moved within 12 months. There were issues with town resources and activities. Complaints were made. The issues got resolved and the Orthodox stopped -- they chose to stop -- using those resources. Nothing illegal was done, and nothing discriminatory. The reality is that the entire financial and demographic of a town can only change in rare circumstances -- and in a town the size of Mahwah, which is the BIGGEST town in Bergen County -- it is virtually impossible to happen. Mahwah is far too developed, too big, and has too big a population, with strong resident community involvement. There are many reasons why it can't happen in Mahwah, and hasn't happened in numerous other towns in NJ. The Orthodox will not be able to "take over" the school board, the town council, nor the planning/zoning board, and the tax assessor. Did it happen in Tenafly? Did it happen in Glen Rock? Did it happen in Waldwick? It didn't happen in Ridgewood either! It didn't happen in any town where the Orthodox tried to put up a "eruvim" -- and here in Mahwah, the argument was very ugly. I attended every town council hearing and meeting. The motives of some and the reactions and fears of others were disgusting. Fortunately, it was just the few, and not the many.
There is absolutely nothing to fear about Mahwah. Panic and fear doesn't equate to fact or reality.
There is no invasion. That is nothing more than the panic and fear that people overreact to. The influx of Orthodox is next to non-existent. More left Mahwah in the last 12 months than moved into Mahwah -- and that number is low double digits.
A few Orthodox families have bought homes on the east side, on the border of Mahwah. Nothing happened with that. Most actually don't live there on the weekends as they cannot practice their religion and abide by their rules. Orthodox have to be walking distance to shul/temple. There are no shuls/temples even close to walking distance -- nowhere in Mahwah. If they look to Suffern, Airmont, Montebello, etc. -- Mahwah doesn't suit the requirements. It's not convenient, unless they built temples here and that cannot happen for a variety of reasons -- not to the extent they would need in order to "invade" and "take over" the town. In the early days, in Lakewood, Monsey, and other towns, the Orthodox did the "temple without walls" (some people still call it a Chavarun (sp.?)), however, many towns passed laws -- not to prevent that, but to not have it become detrimental to the town, either quiet enjoyment, lifestyle, financially, etc. The circumstances, demographics, times, and more, were very different. When it's happened, and the results were not favorable to the entire town -- it happened in towns that were small, not as built up, didn't have the base that larger, more developed towns had.
While I am Jewish, and of course believe in the practice of one's religion, "too much" of anything can be problematic, and when it becomes a detriment to an entire community, then you have a problem -- regardless of whatever group or religion it is. Too much is not too much Orthodox -- it is too much of a concerted, hostile, and adversarial effort to change the landscape of a town and community, when it is to the detriment of others. Within the last two years, there were issues with solicitations of homeowners to sell their home. A few did. More than half of those people who bought moved within 12 months. There were issues with town resources and activities. Complaints were made. The issues got resolved and the Orthodox stopped -- they chose to stop -- using those resources. Nothing illegal was done, and nothing discriminatory. The reality is that the entire financial and demographic of a town can only change in rare circumstances -- and in a town the size of Mahwah, which is the BIGGEST town in Bergen County -- it is virtually impossible to happen. Mahwah is far too developed, too big, and has too big a population, with strong resident community involvement. There are many reasons why it can't happen in Mahwah, and hasn't happened in numerous other towns in NJ. The Orthodox will not be able to "take over" the school board, the town council, nor the planning/zoning board, and the tax assessor. Did it happen in Tenafly? Did it happen in Glen Rock? Did it happen in Waldwick? It didn't happen in Ridgewood either! It didn't happen in any town where the Orthodox tried to put up a "eruvim" -- and here in Mahwah, the argument was very ugly. I attended every town council hearing and meeting. The motives of some and the reactions and fears of others were disgusting. Fortunately, it was just the few, and not the many.
There is absolutely nothing to fear about Mahwah. Panic and fear doesn't equate to fact or reality.
I hope your right about Mahwah.
They can certainly build a temple. It's happened many times over.
Mahwah too big of a town for this to happen? Have you seen Toms River as of late? It's a huge town, very developed and is currently a hot topic of conversation with many orthodox communities moving in. We all know what happened in Lakewood. Rockland County ie Monsey and other areas.
I'm all for freedom of religion, but I don't even have to write the challenges and poor methods used by the Orthodox community when they decide to do a full court press and take over a town. Too much risk IMO to purchase a home in Mahwah.
Actually, they can't build a temple, but that's a discussion for another time. What happens many times over doesn't mean all the time, everywhere, and every time. You are dealing with a very complex, legal, religious, and other factor-based situation here -- and there are no absolutes. No religious group can simply build a house of worship in Mahwah, simply because they buy the land. Your oversimplification is what begins the fallacious accusations, aspersions, as well as the panic and fear, and the unknown, unqualified opinions grow and become the root of untruths that just seem to perpetuate and fester.
That said, tying together what happened in other towns -- even Toms River, which is not anything like Mahwah, in size, demographic, and numerous other ways -- is a fallacious effort and parallel. In addition, Toms River, was very unique in that, as a town, they decided to take dollars from the Orthodox, give tax concessions and benefits, and offered many other benefits as well. They were lobbied by developers, builders, and others and had no unity or collective town council and community. They were looking for and was sold a bill of goods. They invited what took place and looked at the short-term, and not the long-term. Even at that -- what has happened in Toms River has not happened anywhere else. What happened in Lakewood was very different, and had very different and distinct circumstances. Now, if you want to look at something to be "fearful" of from an urban development, geopolitical, religious, financial, etc., perspective -- yes, look at Lakewood.
Coming from someone who has been involved personally -- and professionally -- and knowing the legal landscape of the towns throughout NJ that actually went through this, and being involved with some of them directly, I can tell you that none of what you are talking about has, can, and will happen in Mahwah. The number of Orthodox families in Mahwah has decreased in the last two years, after increasing for the previous five. The defeat of the eruvim (or eruv as some call it) -- basically made Mahwah "safe" as many of the people in the community called it. I wouldn't use that term, and felt there was too much discrimination. But it did make Mahwah unattractive for the Orthodox to try and turn into an all-encompassing, insular, Orthodox community. It is absolutely happening in other communities, but in the areas that it is happening, they are looking at developments and enclaves, before they are looking at towns. One area now where it is happening is Montebello.
Regardless, without an eruv, and without numerous other pre-requisites -- which Mahwah does not have and cannot have -- Mahwah is immune to the type of "invasion" you are talking about. It is no longer attractive for the invasion mentality -- no longer feasible. You are years behind the occurrences and events. Once is doesn't happen -- for the reasons that happened here in Mahwah -- it can never happen, unless the entire town disintegrated in every way possible. You really should be aware of the facts before casting aspersions that besmirch an upstanding community. People shouldn't listen to the unaware, nor should the unaware look to spread their unawareness. There is no full court press feasible that can take over Mahwah. There is no risk. Other towns? Sure. Not Mahwah.
Actually, they can't build a temple, but that's a discussion for another time. What happens many times over doesn't mean all the time, everywhere, and every time. You are dealing with a very complex, legal, religious, and other factor-based situation here -- and there are no absolutes. No religious group can simply build a house of worship in Mahwah, simply because they buy the land. Your oversimplification is what begins the fallacious accusations, aspersions, as well as the panic and fear, and the unknown, unqualified opinions grow and become the root of untruths that just seem to perpetuate and fester.
That said, tying together what happened in other towns -- even Toms River, which is not anything like Mahwah, in size, demographic, and numerous other ways -- is a fallacious effort and parallel. In addition, Toms River, was very unique in that, as a town, they decided to take dollars from the Orthodox, give tax concessions and benefits, and offered many other benefits as well. They were lobbied by developers, builders, and others and had no unity or collective town council and community. They were looking for and was sold a bill of goods. They invited what took place and looked at the short-term, and not the long-term. Even at that -- what has happened in Toms River has not happened anywhere else. What happened in Lakewood was very different, and had very different and distinct circumstances. Now, if you want to look at something to be "fearful" of from an urban development, geopolitical, religious, financial, etc., perspective -- yes, look at Lakewood.
Coming from someone who has been involved personally -- and professionally -- and knowing the legal landscape of the towns throughout NJ that actually went through this, and being involved with some of them directly, I can tell you that none of what you are talking about has, can, and will happen in Mahwah. The number of Orthodox families in Mahwah has decreased in the last two years, after increasing for the previous five. The defeat of the eruvim (or eruv as some call it) -- basically made Mahwah "safe" as many of the people in the community called it. I wouldn't use that term, and felt there was too much discrimination. But it did make Mahwah unattractive for the Orthodox to try and turn into an all-encompassing, insular, Orthodox community. It is absolutely happening in other communities, but in the areas that it is happening, they are looking at developments and enclaves, before they are looking at towns. One area now where it is happening is Montebello.
Regardless, without an eruv, and without numerous other pre-requisites -- which Mahwah does not have and cannot have -- Mahwah is immune to the type of "invasion" you are talking about. It is no longer attractive for the invasion mentality -- no longer feasible. You are years behind the occurrences and events. Once is doesn't happen -- for the reasons that happened here in Mahwah -- it can never happen, unless the entire town disintegrated in every way possible. You really should be aware of the facts before casting aspersions that besmirch an upstanding community. People shouldn't listen to the unaware, nor should the unaware look to spread their unawareness. There is no full court press feasible that can take over Mahwah. There is no risk. Other towns? Sure. Not Mahwah.
OK Thanks for the info and your thoughts. I hope your right as Mahwah is a nice town. I hope they stay out of all of Bergen County as I'd rather have them spread to another Rockland or Orange cty town and not into Bergen.
Lakewood is in a sad state of affairs, and I feel sorry for the minority people who live there as there children's education in the public schools has certainly gone down the tubes.
I am not a "I told you so" kind of person. I don't like pointing fingers either. However, and I say this, and am sad to say it, but I think Lakewood ended up lying in the bed that some may say they did not make, but I think they certainly bought the bed, instructed others how to make it, etc. Regardless, whenever I hear the discussion, I always say, to what end? What's the point. People are arguing about why, blame, etc. -- after the fact -- when living with the results.
Listen, I am Jewish. I am all against discrimination, of all types. However, when there is a group that puts forth an intentional, definitive, focuses effort, to "take over" -- a town, a town's governing bodies, finances, and more -- to benefit self, that group, and it is detrimental to the many, the entire town as it stands today, and the town as a whole will suffer financial hardship; that is unfair. It is wrong. There is one development in Monsey, where, I've been told, by many people who live in the development, that "most" of the people who live there do not pay real estate taxes...because these many homeowners had sought, and received status as a house of worship, temple, shul, etc. I know a family that doesn't pay real estate taxes because of this, and in all the time I know them, they have never had people over the house for the specific reason or purpose, to "worship" as one would in a typical temple or shul. The response is, we don't send our kids to school here, and we host a "temple without walls" -- why should we pay real estate taxes? They say it with a flippant, cavalier, almost arrogant, sense of entitlement attitude. They say it because it's possible and they feel they are entitled to it. It's wrong when it's egregious or fraudulent.
Sure, the "taken over" discussion and fear is real. We've seen the results of it. The reality is that the Orthodox immersed themselves into Monsey long ago, and we all know that. However, whether it was the chicken or the egg, we see what the results are -- and in various communities the results are not pretty -- the potential of homeowners not paying real estate taxes, the costs of bussing children out of the town to other, religious, schools, sometimes the cost of the school themselves (albeit very few, certain, specific cases; which would be the case anyway, outside of this discussion), and more. I get it. But in many cases, it's wrong. If legitimate, OK. But if not, it's wrong. And, it's unfair and can hurt others. JMVHO.
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