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But the workers didnt *sew* the mess, yet they are the ones about to be jobless
If i am not mistaken,are they not union,did they not attend their meetings when it was time to ratify their contract,not one of them could have stood up in good conscience and said maybe they were not preparing not only themselves,but the next generation for a stable future? Or,was it a case of i want mine and i won't sacrifice anything for it?Again where the greater good was buried.ame.
The Management and CEO's are at fault on their end,for not seeing what the competition was doing,that alone is a horrid business practice so now they have to try and play some sort of catch-up game.The only way this situation is going to get out of the hole is if they terminate current management and CEO's,without the "golden parachutes",and the companies need to hold the politicions feet to the fire on free trade.
The Management and CEO's are at fault on their end,for not seeing what the competition was doing,that alone is a horrid business practice so now they have to try and play some sort of catch-up game.
Actually, I think management and CEOs did see what the competition was doing and they chose to view it as a worthless endeavor. When Toyota and Honda were busy working on hybrids and fuel efficient cars in the early 2000s, the Big Three were selling a lot of big trucks and big SUVs. Kind of like McMansions, it's not that most people needed these vehicles, it was more of a social statement. Everyone had to have a big gas guzzler because that was the "in" thing. And whenever someone brought up fuel efficient cars to them, they'd say this is what people want, so this is what we're going to give them. They had this idea ingrained in their heads that these big vehicles were going to sell forever.
Well, gas prices started to rise and people started to change their ways and the Big Three's short term thinking got them caught with their pants down. Now people want fuel efficient cars and they had almost nothing to offer. The Japanese, as always, were thinking forward and it paid off. What we want and what we need are two different things and in this capitalist society, the Big Three are just in it for the profit. For once I'd like to see one of them think forward, change their line up, and give us what we need. If they want to sell SUVs, make them all hybrids like the Ford Escape Hybrid, which gets double the miles. Sure there'll be a small premium to pay, but in the long term it's worth it.
That has always been a big pet peeve of mine about our country. We always brag about all this wonderful technology we have, yet we never seem to implement it in a mainstream way. Auto technology, energy technology, etc... It's always "lets leave it up to the companies to do it," and the companies will say, "it costs too much money and consumers will have to pay more," and so we're stuck with the same old, same old. No one is bold enough to take a stand and actually change things.
As for the gov't giving Toyota and Honda money, no chance. Toyota and Honda might have auto plants here in the U.S., but they are headquartered in Japan. No way we're handing out money to an overseas company. On top of it, while sales are down, both Toyota and Honda are still profiting, so they don't need the money.
Bailouts are a fundamentally bad idea, but if there are any excuses for them it might be financial institutions so that credit can be granted. (But it hasn't been done intelligently.)
But for manufacturing, it doesn't work. It just encourages bad management decision making and bad labor contracts. Reorganization under Chapter 11 is far more sensible. The valuable parts of the existing companies can survive and the useless parts will not.
The money for a huge government bailout does not exist. It's time the government stop spending money like it's unlimited and especially stop spending money that it doesn't have.
The bailouts will make the problem worse because it's impossible for the taxpayers to pay for them.
Actually, I think management and CEOs did see what the competition was doing and they chose to view it as a worthless endeavor. When Toyota and Honda were busy working on hybrids and fuel efficient cars in the early 2000s, the Big Three were selling a lot of big trucks and big SUVs. Kind of like McMansions, it's not that most people needed these vehicles, it was more of a social statement. Everyone had to have a big gas guzzler because that was the "in" thing. And whenever someone brought up fuel efficient cars to them, they'd say this is what people want, so this is what we're going to give them. They had this idea ingrained in their heads that these big vehicles were going to sell forever.
That has always been a big pet peeve of mine about our country. We always brag about all this wonderful technology we have, yet we never seem to implement it in a mainstream way. Auto technology, energy technology, etc... It's always "lets leave it up to the companies to do it," and the companies will say, "it costs too much money and consumers will have to pay more," and so we're stuck with the same old, same old. No one is bold enough to take a stand and actually change things.
Well, we do have innovation and a lot of it, the problem is that when times get tough for many companies, it is the FIRST place they cut. Obviously, in turn this hurts the future, but it is a reactionary move not a proactive move.
Yes, the CEOs saw it and chose to ignore it but once again they are trained in being reactive NOT proactive...not a single one of them is proactive. They need new blood at the top levels someone that has to fight to bring a company back.
they produce an inferior product with inferior quality. they have done nothing to improve fuel efficiency. the attempts they have done were and are very weak.
Have you driven a Big 3 car lately? Stop comparing to the quality of the 90's.
How many old Honda/Toyota cars do you see on the roads? I see hardly any, but I see a lot of very old Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevy Malibu, Chevy Blazer, Pontiac Grand Am, and lots of Buicks and Oldsmobiles.
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what happened to the EVO? the electric car from the mid 90's? 10,000 people ordered cars and pre-paid, but the still didn't manufacture it.
Isnt EVO the Mitsubishi performance car?
Wasnt that that GM EV1?
Any sources to back this claim of 10,000 people ordering them?
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why aren't they leading the industry with a electric/gas/ethanol/compressed natural gas/liquid natural gas vehicles? they already got $25 billion to design this stuff they already designed over 10 years ago. its pathetic.
Arent you following the news? They did not get the $25 billion yet, and this is not scheduled to be given to them till some time next year, which is why they are asking for a LOAN now.
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if i had control of either gm or ford, i could turn it around in 2 years np and become the world leader in auto manufacturing/sales. it takes 4-6 weeks to retool a plant, hell i might even be able to do it in 1 year.
What can I say?
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honda and toyota have been more american made for almost 15 years now. so the fact that each plant in mexico/india is 1/20th the cost and they still cant turn a profit is absurd. honda accord 2009 is 97% american made. that is impressive and somehow they are making just as much if not more. probably more knowing the japs.
I dont think the cost is 1/20th, again, any sources to back this claim?
Capitalism, at its core essence, is a Darwinian phenomenon. It’s a process of survival of the fittest and natural selection. For those who may have forgotten, the way natural selection works is that variation exist in a population of a species. The variation that is most conducive to survival is more successful at reproducing. In other words, the variation which proves the strongest gets to breed the most and the variation that is the weakest do not. This is how nature ensures that the strongest variation or mutation moves forward, which makes the species stronger over time. When this natural selection process is interfered with, by allowing weaker elements to survive and perpetuate, in the long run it will undermine the natural selection process and make the species weaker and more vulnerable to extinction.
Capitalism is a cut throat as is nature, but left alone, it will do as nature does in weeding out the weak and inefficiencies. Thus, by the rule of nature, these companies should not be bailed out; however, it’s not that simple. The American auto Industry is a victim of Americas past success. Its wage and benefit structure was set in an era of global domination (which was artificial result of WWII). The Industry became locked in this structure despite the changing global realities of competition. It became hampered by the Unions inability to manifest elasticity in regards to wages and benefits. Moreover, most competition countries offered universal health care to its citizens, while ours did not; giving them a competitive advantage over our Industries profitability due to ours added health care costs. Furthermore, in the case of Japan, our biggest automotive nemesis, culture differences give them an advantage. There is a culture of honor and shame, which leads to a higher pursuit of excellence and perfection, lest it bring dishonor and shame. As a consequence of their striving for perfection and excellence, they have an extremely high suicide rate. However, economically, it means that things are usually put together a lot better than here in America, where concepts of honor and shame have virtually become extinct in our society.
I light of all this….I say bail them out and hope they get their act together. I think that if the foreign automakers, especially Japan, is without American competition, in the American market, their behavior will radically change. The reason that many of these foreign can manufacturers set up production in America was to avoid tariffs and protectionism on imports, as well as being closer to market. Such tariffs and protectionism would have made their products much more expensive, relative to the American models. In other words, the Japanese strategy was largely based upon American competition being present. If that competition is not there, their strategy will radically change. Why build a car at all in the USA, when there are places that it can be assembled for much cheaper than they are at their non union Southern Plants in the USA? The US will become a captive market, forced to buy foreign if they need a car….and they do. At that point in time, the US has no control. If we placed tariffs for not building in the US or lowering workers pay in the US….so what? The American consumer will have no choice if they need transportation and the Japanese companies will simply pass the cost to the consumer.
It’s far more dangerous to create a foreign monopoly than to prop up inefficient American companies. Let’s just say that there is a war and Japan and other foreign nations are against us. What US manufacturer is going to be able to build the tanks, Jeeps and other Vehicles of conventional war? A nation needs a certain amount of domestic manufacturing strength for the ever existing possibility and probability of wars. It’s dangerous to have emasculated your domestically owned manufacturing base, in favor of foreign outsourced or in sourced manufacturing. Do people really want our nation to be that weak and vulnerable?
Don't bail them out! F them! Stupid business practices over an extended period of time do not entitle the stupid to be bailed out by the government. This is the antithesis of what capitalism is based upon. When my business failed 12 years ago, nobody bailed me out. This is just another example of blatant elitism being embraced by a clueless governing body. These car companies have been havens for elitist, obnoxious, ineffective business practices for years. The only thing they are guilty of is building inadequate vehicles and ripping off their shareholders for the last 20 years. Sad thing is, they'll get away with it because of the stupidity and lack of common sense by the general, voting public.
Don't bail them out! F them! Stupid business practices over an extended period of time do not entitle the stupid to be bailed out by the government. This is the antithesis of what capitalism is based upon. When my business failed 12 years ago, nobody bailed me out. This is just another example of blatant elitism being embraced by a clueless governing body. These car companies have been havens for elitist, obnoxious, ineffective business practices for years. The only thing they are guilty of is building inadequate vehicles and ripping off their shareholders for the last 20 years. Sad thing is, they'll get away with it because of the stupidity and lack of common sense by the general, voting public.
Did your business have millions depending on a paycheck from you? Sucks your business failed but this is a much larger scale...or we you stupid like the ceos aand didnt know how to run your business?
See? seems pretty heartless when its directed at you and your situation and no one cares doesnt it?
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bailouts
