Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Next thing you know, they'll be questioning whether or not my state is Southern....
Yes, Kentucky is Southern. Jefferson Davis was born there. We wouldnt have elected him President if he'd been a Midwesterner or a Yankee...
Well Abraham Lincoln was also born in Kentucky. Was it chance or fate that sent one down the Mississippi river to Mississippi and the other to Indiana and on to Illinois? One to lead the CSA and the other to lead the USA?
There is a difference between the South of the Mississippi delta (Gulf region) and the SE Atlantic coastal areas of states like VA, NC,SC, GA and the regions of the Southern interior. One has the effects of the slave/plantation society the other comes from Appalachia. Appalachian language and culture differ from coastal southern language and cuture. The difference is seen in the difference between drinks based on rum and those based on corn or potato mash derived spirits (Jim Beam or something a little less legal). Kentucky is Appalachian rather than deep southern. Appalachian culture spread out from the the Appalachian mountains to places like Arkansas, Missouri and into the south plains and into Texas and then on to California. It also spread to places like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Pittsburgh in that milions of workers come from this region to work with the millions who came from Eastern Europe, the Balkans and Italy. It is the country in Country and Western music.
What in the World does history and crops have to do with the fact that Kentucky (as of 2009) is more (culturally and demographically) Midwestern than it is Southern?
It doesn't matter how it happened. The fact is it happened. You are trying too hard to "explain away" the facts I have brought to this debate.
FWIW Asheville, North Carolina (NC's largest Appalachian town) has this person ( Re-elect Terry Bellamy for Mayor of Asheville - Working for Asheville, Moving Us Forward (http://www.mayorbellamy.com/ - broken link) ) as the city's mayor.
Trust me my friend, there is a difference between NC appalachian towns and KY appalachian towns. Don't make the mistake of thinking the two are the same ever again. To do so would be an insult to many people (like myself) that KNOWS the difference all too well. I lived in Eastern KY at one point in my life. Let's NOT forget this, OK?
I love a good debate (and this is a great one) however I don't take very kindly to "apples" vs "baseball" comparisons like your Western NC towns vs Eastern KY towns. There are some similarities, but Western NC clearly has a more "southern" culture. Asheville's selection of an African American female mayor is proof of this southern difference. Sorry KY, but you guys ARE NOT southern (or as southern as y'all think you are). There is MUCH more to being southern than country accents, farming, and history. KY is NOT instep with the current south. Today, KY is more of a midwestern state than it is a Southern state. It is what it is.
You keep playing the race card here and it's pretty ignorant. We elected a black president does that make the whole U.S. southern in culture?
I've always considered Kentucky part of the Upland South, which is distinct from the cotton belt and Deep South. There are different accents, traditions, and demographics than, say, Georgia or Alabama, but it still is more "Southern" than "Midwestern" overall.
You keep playing the race card here and it's pretty ignorant. We elected a black president does that make the whole U.S. southern in culture?
Race (and the culture that comes with race) is the BIGGEST difference between the South and the "wannabe" South. Call it whatever you want to call it (race card, race baiting, race stew, whatever). It is still an important factor in what makes the South "Southern". This important element is missing in the Midwestern states (with the exception of their larger cities). The same can be said for Kentucky (with the exception of KY's larger cities). Clearly, KY has a strong Midwestern influence.
Another most recent factor has been the "New South" evolution that is going on in states like Tenn, NC, SC, GA, and VA. This is being caused by a large influx of folks from non-southern regions of the country. As a result, the "south" is becoming less "southern" in the traditional sense.
If anything, I would call KY "old south" (minus a large black population) with midwestern major cities. The truth is I could say the same thing about southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and southern Ohio. Being located south of the Ohio River doesn't automatically make KY any less midwestern (in culture) than the southern portions of these aforementioned states.
I would call KY "southern" if the state had more blacks, more growth in "new industry", more population growth, growing "New South" cities, etc. As of now, KY is a "wannabe southern" state (due to history and geography) that acts more midwestern than anything else. I am not at all doubting KY's "southern" geography. I am saying though that there is more to being a "southern state" than geography. KY has the geography, yet lacks pretty much EVERYTHING else.
What in the World does history and crops have to do with the fact that Kentucky (as of 2009) is more (culturally and demographically) Midwestern than it is Southern?
It doesn't matter how it happened. The fact is it happened. You are trying too hard to "explain away" the facts I have brought to this debate.
heres why it matters. places in the U.S. get their culture from the groups they were originally settled by. kentucky was settled by virginians and carolinians. kentucky is NOT more culturally midwestern. your problem is that you consider north carolina to be the beacon of southern culture, and anything demographically different than it must be midwestern. that is not the case. ohio and indiana's black population descend from slaves that migrated north. kentucky's black population descends from slaves that were slaves in kentucky.
that is why kentucky has a rural black popualtion. did you see my map of the black owned farms? it shows it quite clearly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
FWIW Asheville, North Carolina (NC's largest Appalachian town) has this person ( Re-elect Terry Bellamy for Mayor of Asheville - Working for Asheville, Moving Us Forward (http://www.mayorbellamy.com/ - broken link) ) as the city's mayor.
yea, because electing black mayors is the culural legacy of the south? try the opposite. it shows that sheville is progressive, which in my mind is a good thing, but that really shows that it is becoming more like places outside of the south. VA and NC are the only two southern states to vote obama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Trust me my friend, there is a difference between NC appalachian towns and KY appalachian towns. Don't make the mistake of thinking the two are the same ever again. To do so would be an insult to many people (like myself) that KNOWS the difference all too well. I lived in Eastern KY at one point in my life. Let's NOT forget this, OK?
well explain that to me then. explain the difference. and really living in ashland doesnt county as eastern ky really. thats kind of like calling newport central ky.
but honestly, eastern kentucky culture does not differ greatly from sourher wv, western va, western tennessee, and norther ga.
they speak in similar dialect in both. they have simliar culture, bluesgrass music. i mean, really show me the difference.
asheville is a larger town, and it has a university (like i said my aunt lives there, remember that little family reunion story i just told), asheville is really not a good example. that is like saying that gatlinburg tennessee is appalachian in culture.
appalachia culture is known for being very rural. why would you use the biggest city they have as an example of its culture? that doesnt makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
I love a good debate (and this is a great one) however I don't take very kindly to "apples" vs "baseball" comparisons like your Western NC towns vs Eastern KY towns. There are some similarities, but Western NC clearly has a more "southern" culture. Asheville's selection of an African American female mayor is proof of this southern difference.
no, asheville's selection of that mayor is not proof at all. i mean what do you know about the south? that is the kind of thing that is not characteristic at all of the rural isolated appalachian region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Sorry KY, but you guys ARE NOT southern (or as southern as y'all think you are). There is MUCH more to being southern than country accents, farming, and history. KY is NOT instep with the current south. Today, KY is more of a midwestern state than it is a Southern state. It is what it is.
its really quite humorous to me that you think NC is southern because it is more progressive in politics. the only two southern states voting for obama were VA and NC. why do you think that happened? becuase the raleigh durham area, and northern va are getting more liberal immigrants from the north that are changing the voting patterns.
and your racial background argument is false as well
and really, look at a demographic map
what do you notice? kentucky is populated by a different kind of white person than the midwest. and whats this? look at western VA and NC and north georgia and north alabama? and northwest arkansas? just like i said, how on earth did that happen?
kentucky is not midwestern because it is about as white and indiana and ohio, because not all white people are the same. its a different kind of white person. KY is populated by whites that have been here for many generations (cam orginally from the carolinas and VA) and the midwest is populated by people of german descent.
its all really that simple. kentucky's culture came from other southern states, as it was populated by residents of them. i mean please, if you think champaigne illinois is ANYTHING like danville kentucky then you've clearly never been to either of them.
what do you notice? kentucky is populated by a different kind of white person than the midwest. and whats this? look at western VA and NC and north georgia and north alabama? and northwest arkansas? just like i said, how on earth did that happen?
kentucky is not midwestern because it is about as white and indiana and ohio, because not all white people are the same. its a different kind of white person. KY is populated by whites that have been here for many generations (cam orginally from the carolinas and VA) and the midwest is populated by people of german descent.
its all really that simple. kentucky's culture came from other southern states, as it was populated by residents of them. i mean please, if you think champaigne illinois is ANYTHING like danville kentucky then you've clearly never been to either of them.
Very interesting map. I have a question - what is "American" ancestry?
Race (and the culture that comes with race) is the BIGGEST difference between the South and the "wannabe" South. Call it whatever you want to call it (race card, race baiting, race stew, whatever). It is still an important factor in what makes the South "Southern". This important element is missing in the Midwestern states (with the exception of their larger cities). The same can be said for Kentucky (with the exception of KY's larger cities). Clearly, KY has a strong Midwestern influence.
that is untrue. did i not show you a map of rural black farmers? they are in kentucky, not in indiana.
and Kentucky's larger cities? ok lets count...louisville. done. that is 1. there is only 1 large city in KY.
you actually find that small towns across central and western ky have significant black populations, which is untrue of indiana.
its funny that you use tennessee as an example of "new south", black populations outside of major cities in TN are quite identical to KYs, scarce in the eastern part, and scattered throughout the central and west.
an when many blacks left KY in the great migration its not like once they left everyone said "ok, no more sweet tea or catfish, and lose those accents". the orginal southern culture is still there.
Very interesting map. I have a question - what is "American" ancestry?
that means they have been in the US for so many generations that they can no longer trace their ancestry to a specific european country
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
