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I've never been down there in that area of Kentucky but my cousin ( who lives in O'boro ) her husband is from Middlesboro and I've met folks from Laurel Co and London. It's funny they pronounce it "Lawn-dun" and Laurel is pronounced "lawl" county in that east Kentucky accent... My dad's friends mother was from London Ky, she was as hillbilly as they get, but a great lady, great sense of humor.
I also always thought that London Ky was in the mountains but it looks like just east of London and it's def straight up into the mountains. Isn't Corbin kinda down in that valley there also? So as soon as you leave Pulaski and get into that area a little further east I assume from your comment it's like going back in time or stepping into almost the 3rd world in a way no? I mean that much poverty, or how would you describe it?
I always thought the Pennyrile was Hop-town and Madisonville over in far western Kentucky between Owensboro, Bowling Green and LBL? That triangle area down there I've always heard it referred to as the "Pennyrile" by folks in western Kentucky
Would you consider the area around I-75 to be the mountains? I went through Kentucky via I-75 from Cincinnati. I was 6 at the time.
Pennyrile Region extends from the Tennessee River all the way to London / Mt Vernon area. London is culturally Eastern KY but is actually is the Pennyrile Region. Where Cumberland Falls is is actually where the river flows down off the Appalachian Plateau. But either side of the river looks the same to the naked eye.
A lot of my feeling about E KY and how different it is comes from differences btw my mom's family (that I lived with) in Russell and Casey counties vs my dad's brother and his family an hour away near Corbin (dad was from Harlan. My uncle married a woman from Corbin). My earliest memories (around age 5) visiting dad's family where of them making fun of me for putting a seat belt on as soon as I got in the car ("we've got a little sissy riding with us today"), making fun of me for bringing books with me ("only girls read books") and how they would immediately steal my toys and vandalize them rather than asking for them and then taking turns. When I was 15 my cousin tried to fight me and throw me in a farm pond because I wouldn't smoke a cigarette with him LOL. I have pretty much decided all of them are poor White trash and have had no contact with them in over 13 years.
Mom and her siblings grew up poor as dirt - mom was a teenager when they got electricity or running water in the 1950s - but they were all very smart and taught good manners. Every one of my aunts and uncles worked hard and raised good children. I view them as good Southern Gentlemen and Gentlewomen. They're country and most aren't rolling in the dough, but they all are reasonably educated, well mannered, and treat other people with respect.
Wow. I never even got any of that from my cousins. And a few could be considered "borderline hood". What you described is just underclass behavior. Stealing, vandalizing, and making fun of people for reading books and being safe. This sounds like what someone people would call "hood rat" culture. I've always said ghetto culture and redneck culture are one in the same. I have to wonder what kind of forces would shape such behavior.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
Would you consider the area around I-75 to be the mountains? I went through Kentucky via I-75 from Cincinnati. I was 6 at the time.
From Berea south along I-75 in KY would be considered Eastern Kentuckian in terms of culture and accent. Even Richmond has a bit of a Mountain feel to it. The land flattens out around London KY but I've always considered it is still E KY.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Originally Posted by green_mariner
Wow. I never even got any of that from my cousins. And a few could be considered "borderline hood". What you described is just underclass behavior. Stealing, vandalizing, and making fun of people for reading books and being safe. This sounds like what someone people would call "hood rat" culture. I've always said ghetto culture and redneck culture are one in the same. I have to wonder what kind of forces would shape such behavior.
They are crazy which is why I hardly see any of them ever. I have better things to do.
I've always felt there are more similarities between low class White and low class Black culture despite them seemingly being opposites. People spending money they don't have on stupid things like cars (huge chrome rims or gigantic trunk tires), broken homes, random violence usually based on "honor", etc. And in either case you can't have people from Mainstream America come in and save the day. You give the kids of the rednecks / hoodlums a good education so hopefully they can escape and break the cycle. But no amount of new roads, welfare programs, etc will improve things. People have to change themselves
They are crazy which is why I hardly see any of them ever. I have better things to do.
I've always felt there are more similarities between low class White and low class Black culture despite them seemingly being opposites. People spending money they don't have on stupid things like cars (huge chrome rims or gigantic trunk tires), broken homes, random violence usually based on "honor", etc. And in either case you can't have people from Mainstream America come in and save the day. You give the kids of the rednecks / hoodlums a good education so hopefully they can escape and break the cycle. But no amount of new roads, welfare programs, etc will improve things. People have to change themselves
More similarities than many people would like to admit. I live in Georgia. I went to high school in the western exurbs of Atlanta. Plenty of low class culture to be found, as well as alot of middle class people. I went to high school with some people who behaved like that. Some of them even harassed me. Low class White and low class Black culture are more alike than many would want to admit. I should know because I've encountered people who ascribed to both. Got beat up in class by two students who adhered to "redneck culture". Same thing was done to me by three Black students.
And I know about the giant truck tires. I've seen it and I'm more frightened by it than impressed. And the big rims on cars, I've sometimes seen them on some really junky cars. I was once told "you can't paint fecal matter".
And something else. Appalachia and many inner city areas have this in common: pollution, particularly in parts of eastern Kentucky. Coal companies have all but raped parts of eastern Kentucky and parts of West Virginia. Some places, the water is undrinkable as a result. Inner cities areas, many are around the most polluted parts of the city.
And another parallel is this. For the ones who can get a good education, they leave the region. Same goes for Black people from the inner city. Many who do get an education and do well for themselves leave.
I would say one major difference between the underclass culture existing in Appalachia vs underclass Black culture in the inner cities is space. In Appalachia, there are more open spaces. While violence and drugs are issues, being sparsely populated means less people get hurt, and less perception of being unsafe. With the inner city, it's cheek to jowl, so it's quite crowded, and more people to get in trouble with.
Would you consider the area around I-75 to be the mountains? I went through Kentucky via I-75 from Cincinnati. I was 6 at the time.
Not really. As you come down through Dry Ridge just south of Cinnci it's kinda rolling to hilly in some spots. Lot's of "knobs" as we call it in Kentucky, ( Knobs - high rocky conical shaped hills that are usually forested and not cleared ) But many spots are still kinda rolling with little farms and valleys. Get down around Just north of Lexington till the Ky river its flat to rolling, open farm country for the most part ( I know that from pics and also from what folks have told me. South of Lexington it get's hilly in spots again around and below Richmond Ky then on down into Berea and Mt Vernon. London flattens out a bit but starting around Mt Vernon KY to London off to the east all down I-75 south of Lexington, you can see the mountains on the horizon off in the distance in some spots, "IF" I'm not mistaken? Somebody wanna correct me on that?
Now, also, if I'm not mistaken, get around Corbin on down to the Ky/Tenn line and it's mountainous down that way cause I-75 curves a bit over to the east...
I dunno though, depends on what you call mountainous. Some of the hill country that cuts from the Ohio river south of Louisville through Ft Knox and Bullit county on down along the Rolling Fork over to Casey county. They call that "Muldraugh Hill" or "The Knobs" region. As far as I'm concerned those Knobs are forested mountains in my book, but if you brought somebody over from far eastern Kentucky say around Bell county Or Harlan, they'd laugh that we'd think those knobs around Louisville were mountains. Some of the Knobs around central Ky below Louisville go up to about 800 or 900 feet and can be pretty steep. But the mountains over around Harlan average about 3 ot 4,000 feet in spots....so go figure..
Nope no real mountains around I-75 for the most part but definately some pretty nice sized hills in some spots.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime
Not really. As you come down through Dry Ridge just south of Cinnci it's kinda rolling to hilly in some spots. Lot's of "knobs" as we call it in Kentucky, ( Knobs - high rocky conical shaped hills that are usually forested and not cleared ) But many spots are still kinda rolling with little farms and valleys. Get down around Just north of Lexington till the Ky river its flat to rolling, open farm country for the most part ( I know that from pics and also from what folks have told me. South of Lexington it get's hilly in spots again around and below Richmond Ky then on down into Berea and Mt Vernon. London flattens out a bit but starting around Mt Vernon KY to London off to the east all down I-75 south of Lexington, you can see the mountains on the horizon off in the distance in some spots, "IF" I'm not mistaken? Somebody wanna correct me on that?
Now, also, if I'm not mistaken, get around Corbin on down to the Ky/Tenn line and it's mountainous down that way cause I-75 curves a bit over to the east...
I dunno though, depends on what you call mountainous. Some of the hill country that cuts from the Ohio river south of Louisville through Ft Knox and Bullit county on down along the Rolling Fork over to Casey county. They call that "Muldraugh Hill" or "The Knobs" region. As far as I'm concerned those Knobs are forested mountains in my book, but if you brought somebody over from far eastern Kentucky say around Bell county Or Harlan, they'd laugh that we'd think those knobs around Louisville were mountains. Some of the Knobs around central Ky below Louisville go up to about 800 or 900 feet and can be pretty steep. But the mountains over around Harlan average about 3 ot 4,000 feet in spots....so go figure..
Nope no real mountains around I-75 for the most part but definately some pretty nice sized hills in some spots.
Yeah, I was thinking in terms of culture and not topography. It's pretty mountainous feeling from just south of Berea through northern Laurel Co though the total change in elevation is less than 800 feet top to bottom. London to Williamsburg is pretty flat. When you hit the TN line you're going up Pine Mountain, which has a change in elevation of over 2000 feet. Much of outer E KY is hilly with some rugged spots, no different than the Fort Knox area south of Louisville.
Technically the Knobs ring the Bluegrass Region on all sides, including to the east. Berea, Morehead, etc are the Knobs region on E KY. But since they back up to a similar region further east it's harder to distinguish. Now between the flatter Pennyrile and Bluegrass regions they really stand out. My childhood home was on the last knob ridge going into the Pennyrile. The topography from S Casey Co into Russell Springs changes a lot. CC has a ridge and valley topography that is similar to a lot of E KY.
An easy way to tell if you're in the Pennyrile is rock cuts. P'y rock layers are wavey, in BG and Appalachian plateau they are straight across.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
More similarities than many people would like to admit. I live in Georgia. I went to high school in the western exurbs of Atlanta. Plenty of low class culture to be found, as well as alot of middle class people. I went to high school with some people who behaved like that. Some of them even harassed me. Low class White and low class Black culture are more alike than many would want to admit. I should know because I've encountered people who ascribed to both. Got beat up in class by two students who adhered to "redneck culture". Same thing was done to me by three Black students.
And I know about the giant truck tires. I've seen it and I'm more frightened by it than impressed. And the big rims on cars, I've sometimes seen them on some really junky cars. I was once told "you can't paint fecal matter".
And something else. Appalachia and many inner city areas have this in common: pollution, particularly in parts of eastern Kentucky. Coal companies have all but raped parts of eastern Kentucky and parts of West Virginia. Some places, the water is undrinkable as a result. Inner cities areas, many are around the most polluted parts of the city.
And another parallel is this. For the ones who can get a good education, they leave the region. Same goes for Black people from the inner city. Many who do get an education and do well for themselves leave.
I would say one major difference between the underclass culture existing in Appalachia vs underclass Black culture in the inner cities is space. In Appalachia, there are more open spaces. While violence and drugs are issues, being sparsely populated means less people get hurt, and less perception of being unsafe. With the inner city, it's cheek to jowl, so it's quite crowded, and more people to get in trouble with.
Arrest rates are lower in poor rural areas because there aren't cops on every corner. E KY poverty has no effect on rich people in Louisville or Lexington so they are left alone. Actually most of E KY is devoid of police. If you call 911 it takes a state trooper an hour to get there.
No doubt environmental degradation has a large impact on poverty rural or urban. The two worst places to live in KY - W Louisville and E KY - have the worst environment. W Lou is a dumping ground for factory and power plant pollution. Driving through there my throat burns. E KY has surface mining issues - polluted water, land slides, noise and debris from explosions, etc. And both are in flood plains
CensusData - Doesn't Pine Mtn cut through Kentucky over in Bell county, through Knox, Harlan, Leslie, Perry, Letcher and Pike...straddling the Va/Ky line?
I-75 South bound goes over Jellico Mountain, starting at the KY/Tenn border. I think.
It never ceases to amaze me how some people knows so much and yet know so little....when talking about Eastern Kentucky at least...just another example of all they know (to be a fact) is what they are told...hearsay you might say.
carry on
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