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The situation is likely to get much worse when the court rules on the K-12 funding issue. That will lead to even more cuts in higher education, Medicaid, highway maintenance, etc. As a fairly new resident, I am blown away at the lack of concern shown by most Kansans. They will still go out to the polls in November and vote en masse for the same far right ultraconservatives that are killing the state. For someone that didn't grow up in Kansas, the pervasive influence of religion and social issues like abortion and gays in Kansas politics is shocking. I always thought that Kansas was more of a moderate GOP state, ala Dole and Eisenhower. Boy was I wrong.
Yes, you were wrong.
I've been watching with curiosity from afar as to how far down the rabbit hole the people of Kansas would allow their republican politicians to take them. So, far they've gone further than I ever thought was possible.
But, given that Kansas is in a one party death grip & has not elected a Democrat to the U.S. Senate since 1932 & last voted for a Democratic presidential candidate in 1964, they will keep on plunging down whatever hole the new brand of extremist republicans will take them.
Tifs? Sure. It's asked for almost everywhere now, although most cities don't allow them in faster growing suburb areas and when they do most cities require tifs to go towards road improvements and other public infrastructure, not the actual cost to build a strip mall or motel. That's generally how the MO side suburban tifs works. The Tiffany Spring tif funded the construction of all the new roads and interchanges in the area. The Summit Woods Tiff funded all the new interchanges and flyover ramps at 470/50. The Power and Light district tif paid for all the underground garages (which are used by Sprint Center etc), new rebuilt roads and rebuilt underground utilities. Things the city needed anyway but wouldn't have been able to fund it otherwise. Cordish paid for the actual entertainment district.
Kansas uses incentives to actually fund the building of retail malls etc. Prarie Fire, Village West etc, the developers got upfront cash to build and in some cases finish interiors of retail buildings. Kansas tifs generally go to the development and the state still funds most of the infrastructure improvements. And this is often in addition to PEAK incentives, property tax rebates and overlay sales taxes.
Also, there is almost nothing in any other state like STAR bonds. (let alone STAR bonds + PEAK). STAR bonds are a totally different ballgame than a tif. I have yet to see another state use incentives comparable to KS Star bonds and if they do have anything similar, I guarantee you that they wouldn't be available for developments in affluent greenfields in suburban areas. You will likely not even find incentives similar to STAR bonds being used in urban redevelopments.
The only development in Mo that comes close to what Kansas does is Cerner. And the state of MO and KCMO are getting ripped off by Cerner. However, at least that project is a redevelopment project and it will bring 16,000 high paying jobs to the city. I hate that project because the city should have gotten more out of the deal, but you can't compare that to STAR bonding a retail development on 135th or 167th in OP. The MO supertif that Cerner got does not give as much back as KS STAR bonds and they don't hand over the cash upfront like KS Star bonds do. And it's not out east of Lee's Summit or Liberty in a farm field. There is a reason why the new Metro North is now under construction and Bannister Mall is being replaced while Metcalf South, Mission Mall, Great Mall and Indian Springs all are still struggling to get anything off the ground other than maybe a walmart to replace them. There is no invective to go there when you can get a star bonded project in a greenfield somewhere.
People in Kansas should be a little bit more informed on Kansas corporate welfare. It really is no wonder the state is in the shape it's in when most Kansas residents don't have a clue about just how out of control the incentives are in the state. This new project in Overland Park, Bluehawk?? is absolutely nuts and NOBODY in kansas seems to care that it will be funded mostly by tax revenue. Another STAR bond project in Overland Park at 435 and Antioch is also trying to get approval. Plus they want to do yet another one by the speedway. In a state that is dead broke. In a state that has cities like KCK, Topeka and Wichita that are urban disasters.
It's crazy.
Wasn't the Bannister mall sitting vacant for a decade?
I think the incentives being doled out at the tax payer expense are stupid, but it's not like KC, MO has been a shining beacon of progress this entire time.
I'm not sure why you think the kc,mo etax has anything in common with kansas being a dying state but whatever.
You may be right about suburban development. I don't live in suburbia so I don't follow it. I do think suburbs are not as desirable as they once were so that could be part of the problem in Kansas.
Here is my point. I was just in KC for business and spent some time in both States. The KS side has barely changed since I left KC many years ago.it looks about the same as it did in the 90's. 435 in JO County is wider but the development looks almost the same as when I left. I also drove around wy County and I'm not sure that place has changed in 50 plus years. I didn't go way out to the race track.
Then you cross into MO and it's building up everywhere in the suburbs but ESPECIALLY in the city. I get to travel a lot and see a lot of cities and I'm pretty sure almost every state has booming urban areas right now. Kansas does not have anything going on in kck and I have heard Wichita has barley changed either.
So. That's what by mean by nothing going on in Kansas. Most of the state looked unchanged from decades ago.
I'm not sure if you're expecting to see skyscrapers being put up in JOCO or what, but both sides of the border have changed quite a bit since I moved here in '09.
135th has built up like crazy, I remember when all that was around the 135th and Roe-Nall area was a bank and an apartment complex. I believe the Kiewitt building is new along with the construction going up around it.
Power and Light was still iffy in peoples mind, now downtown is looking healthier, but from a building standpoint I think the Kaufman center and the new hotel are the only new buildings I've seen.
Houses and apartments are still going up like crazy, my main concern with that is the only things I see going up are multi-unit structures or mcmansions, I don't see much in the way of decent sized single-family homes.
But that doesn't seem to be a problem only faced here.
I'm not sure if you're expecting to see skyscrapers being put up in JOCO or what, but both sides of the border have changed quite a bit since I moved here in '09.
135th has built up like crazy, I remember when all that was around the 135th and Roe-Nall area was a bank and an apartment complex. I believe the Kiewitt building is new along with the construction going up around it.
Power and Light was still iffy in peoples mind, now downtown is looking healthier, but from a building standpoint I think the Kaufman center and the new hotel are the only new buildings I've seen.
Houses and apartments are still going up like crazy, my main concern with that is the only things I see going up are multi-unit structures or mcmansions, I don't see much in the way of decent sized single-family homes.
But that doesn't seem to be a problem only faced here.
Kansas has not changed that much. It has your typical suburban sprawl growth in the outer portions of basically one county. And most of that growth is heavily subsidized by state and local tax payers. That's about it. And if you travel at all, the growth in joco is not impressive, it's average at best for a suburban midwest county and does not even compare to many fast growing areas of major metros.
Everything else has been very stagnant with little growth. Topeka, KCK, Wichita all have barely changed in decades other than some minor suburban sprawl. And again, all the stuff by the speedway is built with tax money. I mean when all your suburban sprawl is subsidized, it's no wonder aging suburban areas and urban areas sit untouched for decades.
I would not call Missouri high growth by any stretch, but they have a LOT more going on than Kansas and Missouri development is not limited to outer suburbia and they don't give away as much incentives for suburban development either.
Kansas has not changed that much. It has your typical suburban sprawl growth in the outer portions of basically one county. And most of that growth is heavily subsidized by state and local tax payers. That's about it. And if you travel at all, the growth in joco is not impressive, it's average at best for a suburban midwest county and does not even compare to many fast growing areas of major metros.
Everything else has been very stagnant with little growth. Topeka, KCK, Wichita all have barely changed in decades other than some minor suburban sprawl. And again, all the stuff by the speedway is built with tax money. I mean when all your suburban sprawl is subsidized, it's no wonder aging suburban areas and urban areas sit untouched for decades.
I would not call Missouri high growth by any stretch, but they have a LOT more going on than Kansas and Missouri development is not limited to outer suburbia and they don't give away as much incentives for suburban development either.
Downtown Wichita has improved dramatically over the last decade despite the stalling of several projects and having to scramble for a new anchor retail tenant after Bass Pro gave Wichita (and KC with Bannister Mall) the runaround. The old Innes-Macy's-Dillard's store is next on the list to see a mixed use development renovation and there are 3-4 other abandoned towers that are also seeing work and a new library is in the works. There's no reason to throw up any new towers in Wichita until they save and preserve the existing historical buildings as there isn't any demand for anything except retail and residential space downtown. The arena has really helped change the area around it as well and the police department is partnering with Old Town to clean up the club that causes 99% of the issues down there. The appearance of the residential areas to the east of old town where Kirstie Alley maintains two homes and the church of scientology has also improved dramatically. Wichita’s crime problems are like KC where they're pretty much concentrated into spots of super ghetto.
Some areas in Wichita have been able to stay nice because they have the saving grace of being zoned to the Maize and Andover schools, which is great because the city public high schools range from absolutely horrible to decently mediocre. I was at a regional event at Wichita Southeast six years ago in late high school and the building was covered in graffiti, broken windows, and there was a police chase involving students having a gang fight so my high school and several others don't send student activities there anymore. We also tried to avoid scheduling anything with Wichita Heights because their parents have been known to throw glass bottles at the opposing team's members.
^ Wichita is the largest and really the only large "city" in the state and for it being the largest city...
Most states put a lot of emphasis on their largest city because they are proud of it and want to see it thrive (as well as their capital city). Kansas does neither. Kansas is all about subsidizing sprawl outside of the 435 beltway in the KC area and using KCMO's low hanging fruit (ie, companies, attractions etc) as items they can poach or duplicate to sustain and justify that subsidized sprawl. That's it. period.
I know they have a few things going on in Wichita (mostly a few grassroots redevelopments) and that's great. But for the most part, it's a very very slow growth and slow to change city just like the rest of the state.
Kansas has not changed that much. It has your typical suburban sprawl growth in the outer portions of basically one county. And most of that growth is heavily subsidized by state and local tax payers. That's about it. And if you travel at all, the growth in joco is not impressive, it's average at best for a suburban midwest county and does not even compare to many fast growing areas of major metros.
Everything else has been very stagnant with little growth. Topeka, KCK, Wichita all have barely changed in decades other than some minor suburban sprawl. And again, all the stuff by the speedway is built with tax money. I mean when all your suburban sprawl is subsidized, it's no wonder aging suburban areas and urban areas sit untouched for decades.
I would not call Missouri high growth by any stretch, but they have a LOT more going on than Kansas and Missouri development is not limited to outer suburbia and they don't give away as much incentives for suburban development either.
What growth in KC, MO isn't subsidized by taxes?
The street car? Funded by taxes.
The zoo? Funded by taxes.
The stadium upgrades? Funded by taxes.
The new hotel? Tax incentives.
Power and Light?
Do I need to continue?
The Kauffman Center is the shining example that bucks the trend.
Face it, it's not a Kansas v. Missouri thing. The problem is, this part of the country has little for people to get excited about, particularly from a nature perspective. What would draw people here from outside the region? What would draw businesses here from outside the region? Low cost of living? Maybe. Slower pace of life? For now, though for some reason, this fascination with never-ending "growth" will put a stop to that.
Face it, the never-ending growth model is doomed to fail. By promoting it, you're delaying the inevitable and worsening the eventual crisis.
To be honest, I think the area should promote the burgeoning wine-industry. It could help promote what little natural features the area has to offer and may help contain the suburban sprawl that concerns you so much. KC is already the Paris of the plains, why not tie the wineries in with that "Provence of the plains." It shouldn't affect the pace of life, may bring some more affluent visitors, some may decide to stay.
Funding transit, zoos etc with taxes is fine and completely normal.
A major downtown convention hotel also is very different than all the little hotels in Lenexa, Olathe and Overland Park that are subsidized. The hotels by KCI that are similar to those in JoCo are not subsidized. The new embassy suites hotel in Olathe and Hyatt Place in Lenexa are subsidized at like 50% or more. The KC Downtown Hyatt will be closer to 30%. The downtown Hyatt will actually bring conventions to town while all the JoCo hotels fight over local gun shows. You tell me me which one makes more sense.
There is nothing even remotely similar in KCMO to all the STAR bond projects in Kansas. Zona Rosa is in the Tiffany Springs transportation tax district which funded all the new interchanges and roadways in the entire Tiffany Springs area. I do believe Zona Rosa received a small amount of that money to help build a parking garage in their second phase and that's it. Corbin Park, Prairie Fire, Village West and these new proposed projects in JoCo like Bluhawk or whatever are literally BUILT WITH TAX MONEY. That vast majority of the actual retail structures and surface parking lots are being funded with STAR bonds and other incentives. And it's insane that nobody cares. If Zona Rosa were built with the equivalent of STAR bonds, I guarantee you that people in KCMO, Platte County and Missouri would throw a HUGE FIT, create lawsuits etc and rightfully so. Hell, they freak out on property tax abatements that might fund 5% of urban projects downtown that otherwise wouldn't happen. They wouldn't know what do do with themselves if every retail and hotel in the northland suburbia was 40% subsidized by taxes. In Kansas you can do property tax abatements on top of STAR bonds on top of a 1% sales tax that goes back to the developer, on top of PEAK incentives on top of cash from the city all in affluent undeveloped areas and NOBODY CARES
The Power and Light district is not comparable and that is exactly my point. The vast majority of major incentive projects on the MO side are for major redevelopment projects where most tax incentives go to public parking garages, or to purchase and clear blight. P&L is a major urban redevelopment project that has helped transform all of downtown KCMO. Most tax money went to stuff that the city needed to do anyway like rebuild streets, underground sewers, new traffic signals, lighting, parking that is used by the public for events at Sprint Center etc. These are things the city needed to do, but had no revenue stream to do it so they used P&L Tiff to make it happen and ultimate gave the P&L a place to be built. It didn't pay for the actual P&L development itself.
I would have NO problem what so ever if KS used some of this STAR bond stuff or whatever else they use to build Prairie Fire, Village West etc in Downtown KCK like KCMO has done. I would have no problem if WyCo funded half the cost of a new 500 room embassy suites hotel in downtown KCK next to said development. I would have no problem with a tax funded streetcar line connecting all of this to the KU med area or KCK. It makes so much more sense than what Kansas does now. But nobody, I mean nobody in Kansas seems to have a clue.
The street car? Funded by taxes.
The zoo? Funded by taxes.
The stadium upgrades? Funded by taxes.
The new hotel? Tax incentives.
Power and Light?
Do I need to continue?
The Kauffman Center is the shining example that bucks the trend.
Face it, it's not a Kansas v. Missouri thing. The problem is, this part of the country has little for people to get excited about, particularly from a nature perspective. What would draw people here from outside the region? What would draw businesses here from outside the region? Low cost of living? Maybe. Slower pace of life? For now, though for some reason, this fascination with never-ending "growth" will put a stop to that.
Face it, the never-ending growth model is doomed to fail. By promoting it, you're delaying the inevitable and worsening the eventual crisis.
To be honest, I think the area should promote the burgeoning wine-industry. It could help promote what little natural features the area has to offer and may help contain the suburban sprawl that concerns you so much. KC is already the Paris of the plains, why not tie the wineries in with that "Provence of the plains." It shouldn't affect the pace of life, may bring some more affluent visitors, some may decide to stay.
Your posts are a badly needed breath of fresh air here. Welcome to the forum.
^ Wichita is the largest and really the only large "city" in the state and for it being the largest city...
Most states put a lot of emphasis on their largest city because they are proud of it and want to see it thrive (as well as their capital city). Kansas does neither. Kansas is all about subsidizing sprawl outside of the 435 beltway in the KC area and using KCMO's low hanging fruit (ie, companies, attractions etc) as items they can poach or duplicate to sustain and justify that subsidized sprawl. That's it. period.
I know they have a few things going on in Wichita (mostly a few grassroots redevelopments) and that's great. But for the most part, it's a very very slow growth and slow to change city just like the rest of the state.
It is what it is.
Wichita doesn't need to change or grow fast, though. The fast growth in the 80's just left West Wichita as a poorly planned mess (see West-Tracy street area where it's hard to get to Towne West and it floods all the way up and into JCPenney when it rains) with cheap low quality housing because they couldn't get it thrown up fast enough. It has also helped prevent large areas of the older sections town from being abandoned like they would be in higher growth cities. Old schools are redeveloped into lofts and both dead malls were cleaned up and redeveloped to fit their neighborhoods needs. They've also been progressive at not allowing the county to screw over the zoo (we're lucky to have three high quality zoo's, Omaha, KC, and Wichita, out in this part of the country) and other joint funded ventures. One really has to give Wichita credit for going though all they have gone through economics wise and not emerging as a burnt out shell of a city.
Even when the state has tried to focus on Wichita or Topeka it has always backfired with companies either taking incentives and vanishing or taking them and then leaving town anyways. I don't know if Topeka is a city that can be ever be fixed, but Lawrence is a bright spot in the state that can't be ignored. They've historically been urban core focused and have chased off several big box and enclosed mall developments over the past 40 years that would put pressure on downtown. With Topeka you already have the people who are willing to drive from Lawrence to work at the higher paying jobs in the city and I don't see how they can possibly hope to tackle the deservingly awful negative image. I have a sister in Topeka so I follow the Topeka news and it's mostly all scary stuff. Manhattan is another bright spot since the city put itself in debt to get downtown cleaned up. They have access to a decent zoo (the 3rd best in the state in my opinion) and quite a few recreational areas though the Konza Prarie and Tuttle Creek Reservoir.
In other positive news the Southwest Chief was saved as almost all of the tracks between Newton and La Junta, Colorado have now been replaced, the next grant, if awarded will replace the remainder between Santa Fe and La Junta, Garmin is expanding in Olathe, and the DFA is building a huge powdered milk plant in Garden City even after China pulled out of the deal. There is also the bittersweet news that Amazon is bringing their lost jobs back to the state. I know Kansas is in trouble, but there are positive things happening in parts of the state despite the governor's attempt to ruin us. I'll never forget seeing him flee after his speech during the Star Spangled Banner last July in Fort Dodge because he couldn't wait to get away from a crowd of residents, veterans, and city officials who were not giving him the warm reception he had expected.
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