Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I love the city, but I fail to grasp why you think that the JOCO suburbs is such a terrible place and constantly rail against it, when if you look at it objectively it has a lot to offer residents. I've never been a huge suburb guy, but I can understand that a metro area needs its suburbs just as the suburbs need the urban areas. But when you rail against one side continously, it just comes off as bitter and partisan (not politically partisan, but in terms of the silly "state divide").
You live in the DC area, and I think the situation there is more analagous to here than you might think. In fact, it's even more pronounced an economic divide for all but the very wealthy: DC proper has a staggering amount of wealth inequality, a failing infrastructure (WMATA is in serious trouble), and its poorest citizens are largely minority and suffer from both lack of services (DC schools?) and dwindling opportunities for social mobility, gentrifying neighborhoods from trust fund kids, and meanwhile most of the middle and upper-middle class flock to TWO other states to live in leafy burbs. Not to mention DC residents have little federal representation, while suburban VA/MD residents do. Do you rail against McLean, Fairfax, Arlington, Bethesda, or Landover as much as you hate Overland Park, Leawood, or Lenexa?
Lots of metro areas deal with these issues - in Cincinnati they worry about Covington, KY. Memphis suburbs extend into Mississippi. Charlotte burbs roll into SC. It's a silly argument to say "as soon as they cross the state line, they are not helping the metro area as whole..."...which is I think what your arguments boil down to. I don't think that computes - there is a lot more symbiosis between city and suburb - regardless of a state line - than you give credit for.
Really? I responded to mathguy's troll post can you call me out? Seriously? That only proves that people see what they want to see.
People like mathguy and others don't like a thread disusing how housing starts have shifted to the MO side, so they need to find some way take the thread off topic, mainly by bringing up the KCMOSD in every post I guess since that's about all they really got. And he has the guts to bring up hypocrisy?
I have no problem with suburbs, never have, never will. I actually discuss the Maryland and Virginia suburbs quite often and with a positive tone. I will also voice my opposition to things I disagree with such as tax incentives etc, but so do others that live there. People in the DC suburbs actually agree. It's not like JoCo residents that try to justify everything that JoCo and KS does. Honestly, compared to metro KC, the DMV region is just not as divisive as the KC region. People still argue back and forth. VA vs MD etc, but there just seems to be more overall respect too at the same time. Few actually believe one area is better than the other. Metro has its problems, but it's still funded by DC, MD and VA. The region wants to fund Metro, but Metro has some serious problems concerning how they are run as an agency right now. And while metro DC does hand out incentives, they rarely, if ever approach the level of incentives that the KC area hands out for much less deserving projects.
You really can't compare KC to the DC area though. DC is a totally different animal. It's a much larger city, far less conservative etc. People here don't get hung up on how long the walk is at the airports.
You can compare KC to Cincy though and if you really want to dig deep and do some research, you will learn that the KS/MO thing in KC is nothing like the OH/KY thing in Cincy. Cincy and Ohio works a LOT more with Northern KY than KS and JoCo works with KCMO and Missouri. It's not even close.
Really? I responded to mathguy's troll post can you call me out? Seriously? That only proves that people see what they want to see.
People like mathguy and others don't like a thread disusing how housing starts have shifted to the MO side, so they need to find some way take the thread off topic, mainly by bringing up the KCMOSD in every post I guess since that's about all they really got. And he has the guts to bring up hypocrisy?
I have no problem with suburbs, never have, never will. I actually discuss the Maryland and Virginia suburbs quite often and with a positive tone. I will also voice my opposition to things I disagree with such as tax incentives etc, but so do others that live there. People in the DC suburbs actually agree. It's not like JoCo residents that try to justify everything that JoCo and KS does. Honestly, compared to metro KC, the DMV region is just not as divisive as the KC region. People still argue back and forth. VA vs MD etc, but there just seems to be more overall respect too at the same time. Few actually believe one area is better than the other. Metro has its problems, but it's still funded by DC, MD and VA. The region wants to fund Metro, but Metro has some serious problems concerning how they are run as an agency right now. And while metro DC does hand out incentives, they rarely, if ever approach the level of incentives that the KC area hands out for much less deserving projects.
You really can't compare KC to the DC area though. DC is a totally different animal. It's a much larger city, far less conservative etc. People here don't get hung up on how long the walk is at the airports.
You can compare KC to Cincy though and if you really want to dig deep and do some research, you will learn that the KS/MO thing in KC is nothing like the OH/KY thing in Cincy. Cincy and Ohio works a LOT more with Northern KY than KS and JoCo works with KCMO and Missouri. It's not even close.
You spend an inordinate amount of time on this forum bashing the KS suburbs. You spend a lot of time on this forum telling everyone how backwards KC is and how it's ridiculous that the residents don't want things a certain way. People who live here like it the way it is. It's obvious you don't...and that's fine. But why spend as much time and energy on this forum??
You spend an inordinate amount of time on this forum bashing the KS suburbs. You spend a lot of time on this forum telling everyone how backwards KC is and how it's ridiculous that the residents don't want things a certain way. People who live here like it the way it is. It's obvious you don't...and that's fine. But why spend as much time and energy on this forum??
Actually most of my posts on this forum are development related and I post about development in many cities. I just happen to know development in KC very well and still follow it very closely.
When have I called KC backwards? You say that over on KC rag too. I guess because I think KCI airport is a dump??? KC is much more conservative than places like Denver or Minneapolis or cities out here, but not really any more conservative than most other mid-west metros. I have never thought of it as backwards. I also promote and defend KC quite often in other sections like city vs city. Don't see you over there doing that.
Just because I don't live there doesn't mean I can't remain very interested in how the city progresses. No matter how much people want to dismiss it, JoCo is a pretty big obstacle to KC progressing due to the way the county and state interacts with the Mo side of the metro. That's why I have always been hostile towards the county. KC is too small to have suburban office districts that rival DC and Houston, especially when filled with companies poached from KC and not new companies to the metro. It's been killing the city for decades.
No matter where I live, if I see a post that says "you have to live in Kansas for good schools, the MO side schools are un-accredited" I will reply with a more accurate response.
As for this thread. I stand by my opinion that it's better for KC as a whole to have more people living on the MO side. That's more people that will have a vested interest in KCMO cultural attractions such as the zoo, stadiums, museums, transit etc and more people that won't agree that moving a company from downtown KC JoCo for 50 million in incentives is a good idea. Liberty, Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, Tiffany Springs, Grandview, Parkville, Gladstone, Shoal Creek, Independence, Raymore etc tend to work with KCMO and grow with KCMO rather than compete with KCMO and economically harm KCMO.
That's not taking away from the people in JoCo that like the city and contribute to it in many ways through season tickets, donations etc. People in the MO suburbs do the same thing. But overall, JoCo has done more harm than good to both KC and KCMO and I will continue to expose the county since everything they do in their supposedly affluent county is so subsidized by tax payers. The only reason that I-470 is not lined with office parks is because Lee's Summit can not offer the same types of incentives for in-state moves. They have to grow by some other means other than just siphoning business from KCMO.
Again most of my posts are about KC development. Threads like this only spin out of control because some people don't want to see threads like this at all here. These same people don't post anything in my many development threads. The original topic in this thread is the same thing you can get from the Business Journal. Facts about KC housing trends. That's it. I just happen to think this trend is good for the long term health of the KC region.
When have I called KC backwards? You say that over on KC rag too. I guess because I think KCI is a dump??? KC is much more conservative than places like Denver or Minneapolis or cities out here, but not really any more conservative than most other mid-west metros. I have never thought of it as backwards. I also promote and defend KC quite often in other sections like city vs city. Don't see you over there doing that.
I don't post on KCRag...or at least haven't in about 6 or 7 years.
KCI is not great, but people here seem to like it and really that's all that matters in the end. I don't think we should build an airport to impress people who don't live here. I only support building a new terminal if it makes sense for residents.
I am not a political conservative, but I don't really think it's a bad thing if a city approaches budgeting and appropriations from a fiscal conservative perspective. I appreciate the idea that you would hesistate and strongly consider before engaging in massive expenditures.
I avoid city vs. city because IMO because cities (and city fans) shouldn't be trying to "outdo" each other. It's really hard to compare cities because they all have different positive and negative aspects.
My point is that Joco is a reflection of a significant portion of KC resident's desires: they want big lots, low density, short commutes with little traffic, inexpensive housing, etc. That's KC's 'lane' and JOCO offers quite a bit for that lane. MO burbs do as well. I don't see Joco as a drain on the metro, it's just part of the mix.
I don't post on KC rag anymore either. Main reason is they can't take constructive criticism and I (along with user kcpowercat) actually started that website for the very reason of documenting progress and improving KC.
It's been literally proven over and over again that KCI's problems go well beyond impressing out of towners and how the metro is dealing with KCI is a great example of why the metro is no longer keeping up with its peers economically.
"My point is that Joco is a reflection of a significant portion of KC resident's desires: they want big lots, low density, short commutes with little traffic, inexpensive housing, etc."
I have zero problem with this. Never have. Never will. From a resident standpoint, JoCo is no different than the MO side suburbs and offers the same lifestyle and housing options. It's how JoCo has developed that I have a problem with. JoCo has developed primarily at the expense of KCMO. The MO side suburbs grow more alongside of KCMO. Very different.
You spend an inordinate amount of time on this forum bashing the KS suburbs. You spend a lot of time on this forum telling everyone how backwards KC is and how it's ridiculous that the residents don't want things a certain way. People who live here like it the way it is. It's obvious you don't...and that's fine. But why spend as much time and energy on this forum??
Well you see, because they used to do it on the KS forum so we complained.
After a long fight they quit posting to that forum no doubt due to outside influence.
But NOW they have found a new way to attack KS which is to just have the threads all moved or started here.
I've tried to discuss things and frankly it's like talking to a rabid republican or democrat, it's merely blind partisanship and beyond rational discourse. The only respite we've gotten is when we hold up the mirror and then that last a few months of embarassed detante and now it's started all over again.
How can you distinguish your own posts from what you call my troll posts? Oh wait, because you're SERIOUS when you say crazy crap? lol.
You used to absolutely raid the KS forum with utterly ridiculous screeds. But hmmmmm.....that stopped. Would you care to explain why you no longer do that?
Now you're just trying to launch your attacks from the safety of a forum where you actually provide some value because they'll tolerate your rants more.
2017 permit activity: I'm surprised how much KCMO slipped in 2017 compared to 2016. Permits down by almost half. Due to KCMO slipping so much, the Kansas side closed the gap although the Missouri side still accounts for well over half the new permits in the metro.
Hopefully KCMO bounces back in 2018.
Kansas City 1813
Olathe 954
Lenexa 827
Lee's Summit 776
Overland Park 749
KCK/Wyandotte County 323
Raymore 281
Blue Springs 227
Platte County 183
Shawnee 181
Smithville 155
Grain Valley 147
Desoto 139
Independence 127
Kearney 125
Spring Hill 124
Gardner 105
Belton 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
2016 housing permit stats released today. This is for single family and multi-family. I'm not sure if this includes renovated structures in KCMO.
MO Side 5419 new permits
Jackson 2311, Clay 1548, Platte 962, Cass 598
KS Side 3979 new permits
Johnson 3461, Leavenworth 246, Wyandotte 272
Top permitting cities:
KCMO 3177
Overland Park 1227
Olathe 813
Lenexa 660
Lee's Summit 445
Shawnee 443
KCK 245
Blue Springs 223
Raymore 219
Platte County 126
Smithville 126
Grain Valley 112
Belton 104
Multifamily projects can account for big rises and falls in permits, since just 1 project can have hundreds of units. When you look at these numbers you might want to look just at SF permits, since it's not going to be as volatile.
Multifamily projects can account for big rises and falls in permits, since just 1 project can have hundreds of units. When you look at these numbers you might want to look just at SF permits, since it's not going to be as volatile.
This ^^^. I can think of at least four large apartment complexes in KCMO (Clay County) that began in 2016.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
