How bad does the ‘Illinois Exodus’ have to get? (Chicago: buy, minimum wage)

[damba]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

Ah yes, holidays are over and winter making people miserable.
I know of 2 CPS teachers who earned over $40K 20 years ago, both of which took early retirements near age 45. One was a PE teacher.

Both of which have been living it up in Florida since 03', after a shortened career; plus only working 9 months out of the year.

This, plus the numerous six figure pensions for former politicians are the reason a $5 sandwich costs $8.50.

Same old tired anecdotes.

You are silly to assume so much.

[damba]

Originally Posted by Jon998877

I love what I do now, have the financial freedom to do what I want and made the switch, other option was retiring and I didn't want to do that at 50, so will do this for about 5 years.

[firestar1215]

Originally Posted by Pundcakesss

Just look at the Indiana forum on City-Data in the past few weeks there have been several posts about Illinois residents wanting to move.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/north...-nwi-help.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/north...tions-nwi.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/north...o-suburbs.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/north...here-move.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/india...e-my-spot.html

But by all means lets keep living in denial and saying the exodus is not a big deal and won't impact you. (There's no winners in this exodus except the moving companies)

Thank you so much for these links... I'm one of the ones moving from Illinois and considering Indiana!

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by damba

Same old tired anecdotes.

You are silly to assume so much.

Tell that to the local business owners, who are the very ones complaining.
I've seen zero suggestions from you on how to fix the broken Ponzi scheme, only snide remarks and a condescending attitude.
Clean it up.

[damba]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

Tell that to the local business owners, who are the very ones complaining.
I've seen zero suggestions from you on how to fix the broken Ponzi scheme, only snide remarks and a condescending attitude.
Clean it up.

This is a lot of nonsense. Anecdotes regarding early retirements (relatively low paid for CPS, mind you) do not prove or solve anything either.

[damba]

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

Let's stop with the name calling. It provides no value add and doesn't change anyone's mind or add to an intellectual discussion with new ideas. Also, I know we've diverted from the OP so maybe we start a new thread on IL teacher pay /requirements.

I don't have all the answers and have certainly been wrong in my lifetime but I stand by my comments on degree requirements for certain jobs. We hear everyday how millennials are saddled with more and more student debt they can't afford. At the same time the supply / demand curve for education positions can only pay so much for given positions. Seems like the average pay for IL teachers is $65k and Chicago teachers $75k...seems reasonable. It's nothing against teachers. They are valuable. But if I can provide financial consulting to multi-billion dollar companies with an undergraduate degree that affects companies, investors, employees, etc. why does an elementary/high school teacher require a graduate degree? Just doesn't make sense....and seems like we're saddling them with unnecessary debt. If someone knows they want to be an elementary school teacher I'd rather see them go directly into a 2-year degree program right outta high school...get out with low debt...and start working 2 years earlier to pay off that debt. The 4 year program would be for high school.

I would honestly like to know what HS/school district you attended which underscored such a low educational trajectory for its educators.

I'm all for continual learning too but what happened to on-the-job experience training? Just because someone got a higher degree doesn't mean they should be compensated for that higher degree. We should let demand dictate the supply. For example, if I know that average finance jobs pay $100k...and I go spend $1M getting my doctorate in finance...I can't turn around and say "you must pay me $500k cause I have my doctorate!" This may seem like an extreme example but I literally work with several people who have their MBAs and are a position level below me...and people who have their law degrees and make exactly the same as people who don't at their same position. Kudos to them for higher learning but it doesn't entitle them to higher comp.

Your shark just jumped out of the tank onto dry land, amigo.

My friends with law/MBA degrees have salaries all over the map. Not only are your numbers out of whack, but to equate salary level expectations/appropriate degrees required between Wall St jobs and public school teachers is simply misguided. To justify it with some sort of ‘all debt level for teachers is bad’ more or less continues to inherintly devalue this work. You see a sense of entitlement while I see the greater picture/long game. Supporting teachers should be a priority. On the job training is happening all the time in the teaching profession, btw.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by damba

This is a lot of nonsense. Anecdotes regarding early retirements (relatively low paid for CPS, mind you) do not prove or solve anything either.

Lawmakers must be pushed into resolving the issue, as surely there is a long-term solution:

"But when it comes to teacher salaries, there’s no break for taxpayers. Last week, the Illinois legislature passed a new mandate requiring base pay of $40,000 for Illinois educators. (Cue the teacher’s union cheering.) Yet, lawmakers refuse to cap the payouts for the most highly compensated public employees who burden the system with unsustainable salary and pension costs. The payouts are so large, by our calculation, the equivalent of $1 out of every $3 in individual income tax is paid out to retired teachers."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamand.../#26b50c4d6129

• Troy Paraday made $407,145 as the superintendent of Calumet CSD 155 even though enrollment is just 1,200 students. Meanwhile, the kids are struggling. Nearly 70 percent of are from low-income families and just 16 percent are considered ready for the next level. Paraday’s paycheck is up from the $384,138 last year.
• Joyce Carmine, former superintendent of Park Forest SD 163, retired on a first-year pension of $290,526 (2017). Last year, Carmine earned the #1 salary in the entire system with a massive salary increase from $81,382 (2000) to $398,229 (2016). She earned this largess even though less than one out of four students in her district were considered ready for the next level and 88 percent of students were considered low-income.
• Gregory Jackson received $340,405 (up from $325,208 last year) as the superintendent of Ford Heights SD 169. Why is Jackson making a massive salary when just one in five children in his district passed the statewide PARCC exam? Further, there are just 434 students in the district, and 97 percent are from low-income homes.
• Arthur Culver made $265,000 as the superintendent of East St. Louis SD 189, even though just six percent of students are considered ready for the next level and 96 percent of students are from low-income homes

[damba]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

Lawmakers must be pushed into resolving the issue, as surely there is a long-term solution:

"But when it comes to teacher salaries, there’s no break for taxpayers. Last week, the Illinois legislature passed a new mandate requiring base pay of $40,000 for Illinois educators. (Cue the teacher’s union cheering.) Yet, lawmakers refuse to cap the payouts for the most highly compensated public employees who burden the system with unsustainable salary and pension costs. The payouts are so large, by our calculation, the equivalent of $1 out of every $3 in individual income tax is paid out to retired teachers."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamand.../#26b50c4d6129

• Troy Paraday made $407,145 as the superintendent of Calumet CSD 155 even though enrollment is just 1,200 students. Meanwhile, the kids are struggling. Nearly 70 percent of are from low-income families and just 16 percent are considered ready for the next level. Paraday’s paycheck is up from the $384,138 last year.
• Joyce Carmine, former superintendent of Park Forest SD 163, retired on a first-year pension of $290,526 (2017). Last year, Carmine earned the #1 salary in the entire system with a massive salary increase from $81,382 (2000) to $398,229 (2016). She earned this largess even though less than one out of four students in her district were considered ready for the next level and 88 percent of students were considered low-income.
• Gregory Jackson received $340,405 (up from $325,208 last year) as the superintendent of Ford Heights SD 169. Why is Jackson making a massive salary when just one in five children in his district passed the statewide PARCC exam? Further, there are just 434 students in the district, and 97 percent are from low-income homes.
• Arthur Culver made $265,000 as the superintendent of East St. Louis SD 189, even though just six percent of students are considered ready for the next level and 96 percent of students are from low-income homes

Stop with the cherry picking of administrator salaries.

[Sunbiz1]

Originally Posted by damba

Stop with the cherry picking of administrator salaries.

All 11,766 pension amounts are listed via the article I pasted from:


"We forecast that Illinois taxpayers will be on the hook for more than 20,000 six-figure educator pensions by 2020. The number of retirees receiving $100,000+ pension payouts increased by 60 percent in just the past two years – from 7,333 in 2015 to 11,766 in 2017."

[damba]

Originally Posted by Sunbiz1

All 11,766 pension amounts are listed via the article I pasted from:


"We forecast that Illinois taxpayers will be on the hook for more than 20,000 six-figure educator pensions by 2020. The number of retirees receiving $100,000+ pension payouts increased by 60 percent in just the past two years – from 7,333 in 2015 to 11,766 in 2017."

Instead of more regurgitation, why don’t you let the group know what salary is appropriate for various teachers?