Hospitals/Medical Care in Idaho Falls? (Boise, Pocatello: credit card, live, centers)

[CafeDelSol]

Originally Posted by zarabeth

CafeDelSol, I am so very sorry your wife had such a frightening incident.

I may be a physician's wife, but I am in and out of the ER more often than I would like, either with one of my kid's, or myself....it's never a place you want to be.

My husband is an orthopedic surgeon, an excellent one....broken bones, total joints, everything except spine.

I asked about the medical climate, because it seemed the way to go, to sort of see what people felt about the hospital and the doctors there, in general. It seems to be a progressive place on their website, and the doctor's are trained in some decent places, from what I have read.

May I ask if these were new doctors, just graduated, or perhaps visiting consultants? It's hard to tell from the lists on the site, who is local and has a home there, and who just runs in once a week or so.

Although a trip to the ER is never an event you want to have happen, I'd like to think what happened in your situation was not the norm.....many people react badly and unexpectedly with certain drugs, and I hope she is on the mend.

Mtn. States Resident, thank you for the kind reply

The doctors we have had the more serious problems with have not been young individuals just out of medical school. Some have long established practices. Not sure where the others were from. One of the general practitioners my wife saw regularly just seemed to be shooting from the hip and had no real ideas as to what tests to run or how to handle what should be fairly simple issues. I don't get a warm fuzzy when I know more about a condition and diagnostic path than the doctor I'm paying! Something just isn't right about that. Sort of like taking my car to a mechanic and having to tell him how to fix it.

Regarding EIRMC, one doctor in particular in the ER had a seriously bad attitude and seemed to have no intention of doing anything. (This was a separate incident from the one described previously). He seemed irritated that we had the nerve to wake someone up at 5 am just because my wife thought she was dying. He gave her a shot of Demerol and sent her home. It later turned out she was in the beginning stages of diabetes and this clown didn't so much as do a standard blood screen.

We've lived here for over 20 years and our experiences with EIRMC have ranged from adequate to downright incompetent. Maybe it's because they are understaffed but that is management's problem not mine. When I'm paying for a service I expect that service to be provided. I don't expect to have to run around constantly trying to get people to do their jobs.

We have NEVER had any issues with either Mountain View or Surgical Center. The staff at both are very professional and courteous. We always request services to be performed at one of them when we have a choice.

The orthopedic surgeons we have dealt with locally have been really great so far. We have two we deal with regularly and we have had no issues with them at all. There is also another orthopedic group that comes in from Jackson regularly. I'm heard nothing but good things about them as well. They do a lot of work for the US Ski Team.

[zarabeth]

cleosmom, thanks for the note

CafeDelSol, I've run into a few cranky docs in my time...thankful to say my husband is never one of them, and he is on call a LOT where we are....guess I can only say that no matter what your profession is, personality plays a big part in it. If you're a crank, you're a crank, no matter if you're a doctor, a senator, or a plumber. Sometimes, you're just going to run into a personality that is less than optimal, I agree.

I take it this Mountain View is a seperate hospital, and shall do a search...likewise on the Surgical Center.

Thanks to both of you

[Mtn. States Resident]

[quote=CafeDelSol;986012]The climate for medicine is great. The climate for patients is substantially LESS than great. We have a severe shortage of both specialists and quality general practitioners in eastern Idaho. If you have diabetes, arthritis or certain cancers, or simply a difficult to diagnose illness you're much better off commuting to Salt Lake. Too many doctors here practice medicine via prescription pad rather than try to actually diagnose an illness. This is both frustrating and downright dangerous. For example, one very arrogant and incompetent arthritis specialist caused my wife to end up in the ER with his off the cuff "diagnosis". He gave her a potent, totally unwarranted drug with severe side effects and NO follow up. The staff at EIRMC responded with a resounding, "DUHHHHH, I dunno what's wrong!" We now routinely travel to Salt Lake. (We considered a malpractice suit but the local attorneys are terrified of stepping on the toes of the medical aristocracy.)

CafeDelSol -

Maybe some day we should ask if you have the recipes to the Idaho Falls restaurant, or chose your name another way. It is one of my favorites in Idaho Falls.

You are right, there are so few rheumatologists in the state of ID. You probably don't know for how many years EIRMC tried to recruit more and finally gave up. Salt Lake City has a difficult enough time trying to keep enough around.

Not sure what happened with your wife, but glad you went where you feel comfortable. That is always what is most important.

I do agree with you that the Idaho Falls area, especially at the rate it is growing could use many new specialists and primary care physicians. That is why EIRMC is constantly recruiting more doctors.

To the best of my knowledge, Mtn. View has recruited two during the time they have been open. It's a very expensive process - some same around $1 Million/doctor. Every surgeon at Mtn. View was recruited by EIRMC. Two additional OB/GYNS joined one group there, but mostly due to their need from expanding to 3 locations, and because these doctors wanted to practice in Idaho Falls, their home town. I know for a fact Mtn. View didn't recruit at least the 4th OB to join the group, as I saw the ad for the 4th member to join the group and it came from the group itself.

Mountain View has certainly benfitted from all the physicians and surgeons that EIRMC has recruited to the area. Yet, in some circles, some say Mtn. View is being shopped or at least reviewed by various health care chains for possible purchase.

It is sure hard to know what is fact these days - I think if Mtn. View could keep an Administrator for more than one year at a time, and then the multiple changes in the DON, maybe more consistent information would be shared.

I'm not sure in how many states you've had emergent medical care. I've found EIRMC to be far superior over the hospitals I've been seen in (or taken someone to) in other states. Especially as they've added the radiologist in house all night, and a surgeon sleeping in a call room, I think they continue to improve.

But, unusual diseases are unusual and it's best to go where you have the confidence you can get the care you need.
EIRMC seems to have adequate emergency room service as long as it's something basic like broken bones, heart attack, etc. but many of their ER doctors are clueless when presented with anything involving a more in-depth diagnosis. Mountain View and the Surgical Center both provide very good surgical services. Unfortunately, neither has emergency facilities so you're stuck with EIRMC for critical care.

There ARE good physicians and surgeons here but finding them takes time and there is usually a very long waiting list to see them. There is a definite need for primrary care and sub-specialists in most specialists in Idaho Falls. Most people don't realize how few doctors Idaho has/capita.

Well, hopefully you can be part of helping educate some people about Idaho Falls so they may consider moving and practice medicine in I.F.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by CafeDelSol

The doctors we have had the more serious problems with have not been young individuals just out of medical school. Some have long established practices. Not sure where the others were from. One of the general practitioners my wife saw regularly just seemed to be shooting from the hip and had no real ideas as to what tests to run or how to handle what should be fairly simple issues. I don't get a warm fuzzy when I know more about a condition and diagnostic path than the doctor I'm paying! Something just isn't right about that. Sort of like taking my car to a mechanic and having to tell him how to fix it.

Regarding EIRMC, one doctor in particular in the ER had a seriously bad attitude and seemed to have no intention of doing anything. (This was a separate incident from the one described previously). He seemed irritated that we had the nerve to wake someone up at 5 am just because my wife thought she was dying. He gave her a shot of Demerol and sent her home. It later turned out she was in the beginning stages of diabetes and this clown didn't so much as do a standard blood screen.

We've lived here for over 20 years and our experiences with EIRMC have ranged from adequate to downright incompetent. Maybe it's because they are understaffed but that is management's problem not mine. When I'm paying for a service I expect that service to be provided. I don't expect to have to run around constantly trying to get people to do their jobs.

We have NEVER had any issues with either Mountain View or Surgical Center. The staff at both are very professional and courteous. We always request services to be performed at one of them when we have a choice.

The orthopedic surgeons we have dealt with locally have been really great so far. We have two we deal with regularly and we have had no issues with them at all. There is also another orthopedic group that comes in from Jackson regularly. I'm heard nothing but good things about them as well. They do a lot of work for the US Ski Team.

CafeDelSol,

Seriously, are the orthos from Jackson still coming down? I thought they'd given that up about 3-4 years ago. When I've called their 800 number they said they weren't coming to Idaho Falls any more. Actually, I was just looking last week and not everyone is still in WY who was. Maybe they have started again? I know the office they were using on Cortez is being used by other practitioners currently. If you have a local Idaho Falls address, would you send it to me in a PM?

You are absolutely correct that those orthos worked with the French and U.S. Olympic teams.

It is too bad Mountain View never did build their Emergency Room and their ICU as they promised. Lots of promises, but they didn't follow through, (or at least haven't done it so far).

With your wife's diabetes, it would be so much easier for her and you if she could be hospitalized at Mtn. View if needed. But, they don't have medical beds. All their beds are for "procedure patients" as those are the patients that make them money. Deliveries, surgeries, endoscopies and other scopes plus a few other procedures are the patients in the beds they have. Patients with chronic illness, as I"m positive you know with both the rheumatology issue and diabetes are so time consuming, difficult to adjust meds and difficult to get someone to take time to really understand what is going on, that my understanding is Mtn. View never wanted to accept the "medical patients who are complex."

Mtn. View has about 20 beds and EIRMC has about 350, so the challenges are different at each hospital. The E.R. at EIRMC has 30 beds. Sometimes, it helps to put it in perspective to realize the total amount of patients admitted to Mtn. View is less than in the E.R. at EIRMC.

Maybe you could let your doctors (or your wife's) who practice at Mtn. View know that you'd like Mtn. View to add medical beds and an E.R. They use to do cardiac caths at Mtn. View and got a lot of press about opening that service, but quitely closed it over a year ago. Maybe you can start to influence something that sounds like it might benefit many. You might be that X factor that can help change what services they offer.

I know one hospital system looked at Mtn. View and passed on acquiring the hospital, but bought land in Idaho Falls elsewhere. Even if they don't build a hospital down the road, land is such a smart investment given the rising costs!

Mtn. View did change hospital policy in Idaho and it was shortly after Mtn. View was built the senate voted to stop designer hospitals from being built, as the full service hospitals were over-loaded with patients the designer or boutique hospitals didn't want in their facility. Chronic illness, unless someone is having a procedure, doesn't make money for any hospital.

After Mtn. View was built, laws changed in Idaho that any boutique-like hospital MUST offer both emergency care and an ICU. The new hospital, Riverside MC, being built by doctors in Boise has to offer many more services than Mtn. View does. Even though they won't get traumas, they will get people with Community - Aquired Pneumonia walking off of the streets and other emergencies they can handle.

Emergency Rooms lose money too, just like psychiatry and other medical specialties. Yet, EIRMC as the full service hospital has to provide that care along with the 29 bed ICU/CCU.

Sometimes I think it would be good for EIRMC E.R. and AIR Idaho to close for a day or two. It would be interesting to see what doctors would step up to the plate and provide emergent care for their patients and visitors who have been injured in YNP etc. and where patients would go for their care.

I hear your frustration. If only Rheumatology, Infectious Disease, Neurology and a few other medicine specialties paid enough for medical students to want to enter training in them. But, that isn't how it's going these days.

I think you are so wise to get the care you need at a hospital you trust. What is odd, is there will be patients that think that hospital in worthless too. It depends so much on expectations and experiences. No one place is the right place for every patient or doctor. Two doctors who did the majority of their work at Mtn. View have relocated this year.

It's just too bad, that when Mountain View promotes they want to be the "hospital of choice" they don't expand their services to take pneumonia, diabetes, cancer, congestive heart failure pts., AIDS patients, renal failure, liver failure, Alzheimer's and so many other patients who could benefit from their care at another local facility. And, it would be great if Mtn. View could expand their lab to add adequate enough lab tests to follow some other routine diseases.

Also, if Mtn. View could have a consistent administration and employees were guaranteed the hours they were promised they would work, I think that would help morale too.

Interesting insights, CafeDelSol, and no two patients have identical experiences. I'm glad you shared yours as I think it will encourage others who have had bad experiences at Mtn. View, and good experiences at EIRMC, or totally different hospitals to consider sharing their stories as well.

Mtn. View has been open now, for about 5 years, so there are patients who have decided it is no longer the hospital they prefer, given the limits of what Mtn. View can offer. The honeymoon period is over.

And the Surgical Center - which I'm so happy to know you realize is another hospital (the Recovery Center Section)- seems to get such positive reviews, don't they? Aren't they sponsoring another 4th of July run this year? I think that's what I read. I can't think of anyone, off the top of my head, who didn't enjoy their surgerical experiences at IF Surgery Center/Recovery Center (as much as surgery can be "enjoyed.").

I sure hope some day, if indeed your are connected with the restaurant you'll give us some tips about some of the dishes I don't think I've talked to too many people that didn't like the food at the restaurant near the movie theatres. But, I have no way of knowing whether or not you are connected. That may be YOUR favorite restuarant. It's funny how people can read into a name or situation what they want (Yes, I hope you are connected as I'd like to know more about some of the spices - which I'm sure are guarded secrets).

Thanks for posting your ideas. It's how people learn more of what an area has to offer.

Now about miniature golfing and all the compliants I hear about lack of availability of those activies. I'm hoping that is one of the recreational activies Sunnyside Crossroads Regional Shopping Center puts in, as well as more movie theatres (which are already promised there and Snake River Landing). And I'd sure like to see an ampitheatre type performance center in the newly donated land which will become the 9.5 acre park above the Snake River. Can you imagine a night hearing music you like in a beauitufl park by the Snake River - it could be really spectacular, like Red Rocks in CO.

We are so lucky to live in this beautiful part of the world.

[zarabeth]

Mtn, States Resident....curious here, this Mountain View facility.....sounds like it's for sale....are they still doing procedures there, or has that shut down?

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by zarabeth

Mtn, States Resident....curious here, this Mountain View facility.....sounds like it's for sale....are they still doing procedures there, or has that shut down?

Zarabeth,

Mtn. View is still doing procedures, just at least 2 doctors have left. They are also still doing deliveries. If I remember this correctly, which I may not because some beds are swing beds depending on the census that day, something 11 beds are dedicated to OB and potentially GYN patients.

So about 8 beds, depending on how many deliveries there are, are available to post surgery patients.

Mtn. View is open, don't want you to think the doors are closed or anything. Last year, within one month the Administrator and DON both quit. I'm not sure who (if anyone) formally has those positions now, or if others are still "acting Admin or covering DON."

As for Mtn. View's possible sale, I have no idea if those at Mtn. View started asking other hospitals to look at them (I know last year they nixed all ideas about expansion at that location for more beds when just 1-2 years earlier they were going to double the beds and accept medical patients, plus add an E.R. and ICU. I can't say what happened as I don't know.).

Mtn. View is very, very good at making sure they get lots of press coverage when they are expanding services, like an Urgent Care on the west side when many thought they were going to build a hospital there. Who knows, maybe they want to sell their physical building, so close to EIRMC, and build on the westside. But, they eventually will have competition given where I know one hospital chain bought property.

Mtn. View tends NOT to let the public know if they have closed services or changed staffing patterns. I don't even know if they've announced, to the public, which doctors have left or will be leaving in the next month.

So the bottom line is I don't know if hospital chains (as I know of more than one) have just expressed interest in Mtn. View, given that it was built prior to the new ID laws requiring an emergency room and at least a 4 bed ICU (two additions they were going to add about 2-3 years ago, along with some more inpatient beds). Maybe that's what ID law required for expansion and the owners of Mtn. View (the doctors who practice there) couldn't swing another $20 million or so to make it happen.

Maybe Mtn. View did indeed put the word out they wanted to partner so they could grow their services and beds. But, I know all the chains of which I'm aware that seriously considered Mtn. View wanted to just buy the facility and not partner for reasons I don't can't write here.

Like so many things in medicine, it's complicated.

Should your family decide to locate in the Idaho Falls area, your husband would NOT have to get privleges at Mtn. View. For trauma call and complex cases, all of those patients are at EIRMC. Also, as I believe it was CafeDelSol who mentioned, there is actually a third hospital in town, called the Idaho Falls Surgical Center and Recovery Center. They are only about 10 beds, but in some ways, provide many more "medical beds" than Mtn. View as they will accept complicated Infectious Disease patients (who aren't emergent), G.I. and some other medical patients. One oncologist use to even have privileges there for patients who didn't do well after chemo etc.

The link to the I.F. Surgical/Recovery Center is: Idaho Falls Surgical Center. Oh, just looking at their site I'm reminded they have a 5K run tomorrow, on the 4th of July. It's newer than some runs, but well received. (Good Luck Runners!).

I can easily think of 10-15 different surgeons/GYNs who have patients that need Day Surgery and don't like bigger hospitals, so they have privileges at I.F. Surgery Center. It seems odd to me the Surgery Center and Recovery Center have different, albeit close, addresses. But, I think that's because again, some medicine docs could admit to the hospital and they patients hadn't had surgery. But, the two centers are directly connected - it's not like anyone has to go outdoors or anything to get from the O.Rs. to the rooms down the hall.

So many patients who have had surgery there like it because they have fireplaces (I believe that is still correct) and furniture so much more like home. Plus, food comes from the outside. Not sure how all those details work, but many prefer it to having surgery elsewhere for Day Surgery.

While this may sound odd, The Recovery Center actually has more dedicated beds to post-surgical patients than Mtn. View. That's because Mtn. View has so many deliveries. I'd be a little nuts if I were the charge nurse at Mtn. View and heard I had a patient coming from the O.R. who needed a bed and a couple more women coming in to deliver, and I only had one bed available. I'm not sure how they handle that situation.

I'm not sure what's ahead for Mtn. View, except if it's sold to another company, the local doctors won't be in control as they are now. Most profitable hospital use the economies of scale by purchasing hospital products at bulk or lower rates than a hospital owned by an independent group.

I know this is kind of detailed and long, but I hope it helps your family with possible decisions you may be making.

[zarabeth]

No, it's great...I love the detailed information, it helps to paint a better picture of the climate there...as I said, we're medical, and this would be a major move....every detail is welcome in making such a huge decision.

Any insights as to how the admin is there, how they treat the docs? It can make or break a successful practice, depending on how CEO's run their hospitals.....pm is fine if you need it

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by zarabeth

No, it's great...I love the detailed information, it helps to paint a better picture of the climate there...as I said, we're medical, and this would be a major move....every detail is welcome in making such a huge decision.

Any insights as to how the admin is there, how they treat the docs? It can make or break a successful practice, depending on how CEO's run their hospitals.....pm is fine if you need it

It looks like my post got lost. I must have pushed the wrong key. Will have to get back to you about some of this. Not sure if Mtn. View has an Admnistrator in place now and if so, for how long. Not sure what the deal is about DON at Mtn. View.

EIRMC's CEO is Doug Crabtree. An Idaho Falls native, he worked his way up the HCA corporate ladder to be Administrator of EIRMC, what he always wanted to do. I don't know how long he's been the Administrator/CEO, more than 10 years, I believe. In medicine, 10 years can be a lifetime, as I'm sure you know.

If I were you, I'd keep asking as many sources as you could the information you need to know. But, deep down I feel if this is the right move for your family, you'll just know that it is right. You'll feel like it's the right match or not.

More later-

[CafeDelSol]

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

Seriously, are the orthos from Jackson still coming down? I thought they'd given that up about 3-4 years ago. When I've called their 800 number they said they weren't coming to Idaho Falls any more.

I'm not sure. I haven't needed an ortho for awhile so I haven't paid much attention. They may not be coming here anymore. Maybe they didn't get the business they were hoping for.

I hear your frustration. If only Rheumatology, Infectious Disease, Neurology and a few other medicine specialties paid enough for medical students to want to enter training in them. But, that isn't how it's going these days.

That's really unfortunate. With diabetes such a growing epidemic there is a serious need for more endocrinologists who really understand the disease. And almost everyone will have arthritis at some point in their lives.

What is REALLY needed is more holistic medicine that treats the entire body as a total system, not just a collection of individual pieces. But specialists hate that approach. The future direction of medicine is in prevention and control of disease by balancing the whole system, not just trying to fix things after they malfunction. We found one really sharp local diabetic doctor with that philosophy a few years back but then he moved to Arizona! We're still searching for a replacement. Any recommendations?

I sure hope some day, if indeed your are connected with the restaurant you'll give us some tips about some of the dishes I don't think I've talked to too many people that didn't like the food at the restaurant near the movie theatres. But, I have no way of knowing whether or not you are connected. That may be YOUR favorite restuarant. It's funny how people can read into a name or situation what they want (Yes, I hope you are connected as I'd like to know more about some of the spices - which I'm sure are guarded secrets).

No I'm not connected with it. Sorry! Actually I had forgotten there was a local restaurant by that name! Sounds good, I'll have to try it out and analyze some spices.

It was more of a music related choice when I picked the name. It's known in Ibiza as "sunrise or chillout music". I just call it boat music 'cause it's relaxing when you're out sitting on the lake watching the sunset after a hard day of watersports.

[Mtn. States Resident]

CafeDelSol,

I enjoyed you comment about the restaurant. I've been told (but couldn't swear to it in a court of law), that the owner has 4 restaurants in the Northwest and homes in each of the cities. Darn, he's been such a successful businessman, I wanted to pick your brain for biz tips between various states, let alone spices. But, I'm just glad to have your honest views.

Ok, my turn to admit I don't know the band/music. Any links you can give me?

I do think you are right that the orthos living and Jackson Hole, who held clinics in about 4 cities in WY, let alone one clinic in Montipelier, stopped coming to Idaho Falls as it wasn't profitable. For a while, I think patients were happy to get extra opinions, but not everyone wanted to go to Jackson Hole to have surgery at the surgery center they built. Besides, I think a few practice 1/2 time or less.

That group, as I remember it, at the peak had about 9 orthos, most sub-specialists. As I think I mentioned in an earilier post, I was trying to find some info about that group just a few weeks ago, and was surprised to learn some had left. So I think they are recruiting, but the ad I saw was just for a generalist, no sub-specialist like most of them are. Actually, I think I saw two of the original group broke off and opened their own office in Jackson. Anyway, Idaho Falls has gotten some new orthos since then and is recruiting more.

Don't we all want doctors who will listen to us? It's so hard to keep offices open, given the Medicaid/Medicaire reimbursements etc., plus the cost of malpractice insurance (which may well be why some of the surgeons left that Jackson Hole Ortho group as malpractice use to be the highest in WY of any state, given that they had no tort reform). There are so many pressures running a medical office, more than most people realize. I guess in some ways we're lucky to find those gems anywhere we can get them.

You comments:

"That's really unfortunate. With diabetes such a growing epidemic there is a serious need for more endocrinologists who really understand the disease. And almost everyone will have arthritis at some point in their lives.

What is REALLY needed is more holistic medicine that treats the entire body as a total system, not just a collection of individual pieces. But specialists hate that approach. The future direction of medicine is in prevention and control of disease by balancing the whole system, not just trying to fix things after they malfunction. We found one really sharp local diabetic doctor with that philosophy a few years back but then he moved to Arizona! We're still searching for a replacement. Any recommendations?"

I'm sorry to hear the one person who appeared to be helping your wife moved. I'm not sure every specialist hates a more holistic approach, but it sounds like you've not met a good local match.

If you are still interested in trying to get your wife help locally, I'd be happy to exchange some PMs with you about some practitioners to try. I'm not in a position to post any names here (and I wouldn't if I could). But, I don't mind trying to help someone when the rest of the readers on City-Data or elsewhere, given how the Internet works, might pull up that discussion. But, am happy to suggest some folks privately that you may not have tried.

Please just send me a PM, if you wish, letting me know what/who you've found to be helpful to this point.

Rheumatology, just isn't as exciting as Interventional Radiology to those graduating from Medical School. Rheumatology means a person is going to have a chronically ill life, not a quick fix. (Don't get me wrong, Rheumatology is GREATLY NEEDED, but the reality is few graduating from Medical School find it fulfilling unless they have a family member or other personal draw to the specialty).

I sincerely believe not all practitioners are the same. It depends on what they were taught, what motivated them to enter a healing profession and whether they see themselves as successful or not.

While this doesn't pertain to your wife, I know one sub-specialist who lives in another state that has a practice full of patients who have seen him 1-3 times. The physician sees himself as very limited in what he can do to help (powerless, often) and that messages echoes to his patients, which is why they leave. Many, of his former patients, find tremendous improvement in their life with other doctors treating them. How can patients have hope if their doctors don't believe they can help them?

Good luck and let me know if I can help you.

P.S. If you do eat at CafeDelSol, let me know what you think. I was surprised how small it looked the first time I went in, but realized finally that there was another entire half to the restaurant. And it's ok if you don't like it.

Maybe we should start a favorite restaurant thread for the Idaho Falls area. What do all of you think, who live in or frequently eat in Idaho Falls? I saw per the Idaho Falls Magazine article the Sandpiper was rated #1 overall. I think it could be fun to discuss different restaurants.

MSR