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I doubt seriously if anyone will be able to pull anything thru the old galvanized pipe. It is likely so rusted and corroded inside the diameter is probably less than 1/4".
There is a machine some guys use that feeds the pipe underground without digging. They can go under driveways, slabs etc. I just looked at a house where they came up at the back of a garage thru the floor to re-connect to the house plumbing. It was pretty amazing.
That might be it, I think he said the new PVC would just sort of 'follow' the galvanized underground. Then he threads the Pex through the PVC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Spider
The only reason to get rid of the existing copper would be if there were the start of pin hole leaks. I would probably use PEX for everything, and just connect to the existing copper.
I'll get him to quote it again, both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Spider
Keep in mind that if the electrical system is using the water pipes for the ground, a new ground rod will have to be installed, when you go with plastic.
I'll definitely ask about that. Would that be something the plumber takes care of, or would I need an electrician too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Spider
I was going to say that the difference in the bids might be the difference in the labor rate, the estimated man hours, or what they think they are worth, or what they would like to think they are worth.
FWIW
The guy bidding highest- wants to bust my sidewalk and dig a trench.
The guy in the middle- will try not to dig, but might need to.
The guy with the lowest bid- doesn't think he'll need to dig, unless he comes up against something unusual.
For some reason I had expected that all these guys would come up with similar plans, and their bids would be closer in range. Not expecting it to be all over the board like this. I can't wait to see what happens when I get estimatesfor the roof.
If its just a sidewwalk they can use a pressure sprayer and a pice of pvc sheduole 40 to go that idstance. no need to break it up;skip that guy. make sure they are bonded and insured pluis check references.
How much distance are we talking from the street to the house? Is it a straight shot pretty much? He probably can just grab on to the galvanized itself and pull it out. If you got a way to generate lots of force and it is properly directed should just pull out. How deep to you think it is? What is the line size?? How old the house.
The lowest guy sounds like he has the most experience. Actually they all sound a bit high, must have a lot of contingency in there. I remember a service change being like ~$1000 in New England and if they pulled it was even less. I remember a neighbor getting it pulled out and the total was like $600 for about 15 feet of line. That was a lead line.
The one big thing to have done is get either the town / city work order or be sure they have called Dig Safe. You sure do not want it to go wrong. Do you have gas, water, sewer and what else all running in about the same area? Normally it is the gas pretty shallow, then the water over top the sewer. If you have the old clay sewer lines, they sometimes can damage it if they dig.
Lot of times the lines were very carefully backfilled with just pure dirt or a sandy type fill, being careful to have no rocks close to the lines. In those cases they pull out fairly easy.
You can get into a bear of things where the house is quite old. You will find various lines have been replaced, sometimes the old ones were abandoned in place. Also where is the shutoff on the street? Hopefully not under a sidewalk. Never fails, the city finally replaces the sidewalks and then you got to mess with the water and they come and bust Hell out of the new sidewalk. If they dig can also do the job on your hedges, bushes and small trees.
That electrical ground is not a big deal. You just shut off power at the main breaker and undo the ground clamp, never lift the clamp with power on. If you get new copper, then can just reinstall the clamp. Must be on the street side of the meter. Lot of plumbers will do it, they do not want to mess around waiting for an electrician. Or you can do it yourself.
If the new service line is not metal, then you will need to put a ground stake outside.
Recently purchased house has newer copper pipes joined directly to old galvanized pipes. Water pressure is turned up high in order to force water through the corroded gunky galvanized pipes. Needs to be replaced sooner rather than later.
So I got three bids on this job, two of the guys want to replace just the galvanized with Pex, third guy wants to replace all the pipes with Pex. What I find confusing is that the third guy gave the lowest bid, for doing the most work. (He's also the only one that said he would sleeve the pipes from the house to the street.)
Kind of wondering if the bid from the third guy is lower because he can salvage the copper? Is copper still valuble enough that it would warrant a difference of hundreds of dollars of difference in the bids? Or do you think there is something else coming into play here?
1st bid 3000-3500
2nd bid 2500-3000
3rd bid 2000-2500
To answer your question, the third guy is right. Actually, judging by the pricing, it's not likely that either of these gentlemen are pulling permits. This is how your job should go down.....
1st) Yard gets located before digging so no electric, gas, telephone lines are damaged
2nd) Water line is installed. Since you already have galvanized main in yard, that line should be replaced with copper unless you have an electrician to reground your service. If you have a crawlspace they should bring your main shutoff to within 3 feet from crawlspace door. Somewhere thereafter there should be a pressure reducing valve and an thermal expansion tank. The inspector from city/county comes, passes inspection. water line should be at least 12" in ground but I always do 16"-18".
3rd) Repipe is pretty straight-foward. No connecting back to anything existing. Outdoor faucets, under-sink stops and supply lines should all be replaced. Pipe should be hung properly (no sags). Make sure they make an attempt to route pipes so that it doesn't take hot water forever to get to the furthest fixture. I always recommend if possible, use a manifold setup with hot water. An inspector would tell you the repipe itself needs permitted but very few plumbers do. The main in yard, I always get inspected. As for the repipe inside, if it leaks you'll see it and if it doesn't leak right away it won't. especially PEX.
water line should be at least 12" in ground but I always do 16"-18".
Don't forget though it highly depends on where in the Country you are located as well. A water pipe 18" underground here, or most Northern areas will freeze all winter. Here they are at least 36" and in other areas I have seen them routinely go down 50" and put a layer of Styrofoam on top to prevent freezing issues.
2nd) Water line is installed. Since you already have galvanized main in yard, that line should be replaced with copper unless you have an electrician to reground your service. If you have a crawlspace they should bring your main shutoff to within 3 feet from crawlspace door. Somewhere thereafter there should be a pressure reducing valve and an thermal expansion tank. The inspector from city/county comes, passes inspection. water line should be at least 12" in ground but I always do 16"-18".
In the south, barely, but no hard freezes here.
Pipes are in the walkout basement, main line to street starts about 2' down from basement ceiling. House in on a terraced hill with street level 10'-12' lower than house. 60' from house to street. Guessing that the main is sloped downhill, but that is one of the unknowns.
Pipes are close to 60 years old, probably pretty gunked up. I'm at 120psi, just to get a normal water flow! Pressure reducing valve is being replaced as it has been tampered with and damaged.
Thermal expansion tank? Is that the brass bell shaped thing? Mine is still servicable, for now, and could be reused, but he recommended the option of upgrading it for an additional $200. If it makes a difference the water coming in from the street is supposedly at some phenominally high pressure. I think he said over 200psi? I'm leaning towards replacing it. Thoughts?
Sleeved Pex vs. copper main~ I like the idea of the sleeve, sounds like it makes any future repair easier and less expensive, and the up front cost is less (will I negate the savings by having to have an electrician install a new ground? ) Would copper have an advantage over the Pex, less prone to future problems maybe?
You guys are being so helpful, I feel like I'm learning some really useful stuff here. Thanks!
Two feet is not even buried. Wonder why these guys are making any sort of big deal about it, not even talking knee high. I do not even considered it barely covered. Our natural gas lines are running at that depth.
Around my way, water lines are typically pretty deep, mine is like over 5 feet. We would just kick the dirt off yours with our boots or maybe use the family dog to pull the line out. Our mains are over your head deep.
Plus it looks like all systems are not the same. Would love to have some of that pressure of yours. We do not have the ability to regulate pressure to individual houses. Whatever regulation there is, only is on the mains system. If you live on the top of a hill, lots of luck.
Actually having inlet pressure that high sounds sort of dangerous to me. On a good day, I might be getting 30 psi. Shower does not exactly sting your skin.
Actually having inlet pressure that high sounds sort of dangerous to me. On a good day, I might be getting 30 psi. Shower does not exactly sting your skin.
I suppose if the lines were not so gunked it would be, but I'm getting a low to normal flow from faucets and showers. Supposed to be set at around 50psi. Speculation is that the guy who sold the house jacked up the pressure, and managed to break the pressure valve while doing it. Home inspector sort of shook his head. I bet those guys see a lot of garbage like that.
So, if I offered you a six pack and some burgers would you and your dog come over and kick some of that dirt off for me?
To be fair, I was told it's possible (but I think not likely) that the pipe runs straight in from the street and then 'up' to the house. Which could put the pipe pretty deep near the house. The one guy did mention the possiblilty of needing a "deep trencher", but I think that might have been a scare tactic to justify his 3500 bid.
I suppose if the lines were not so gunked it would be, but I'm getting a low to normal flow from faucets and showers. Supposed to be set at around 50psi. Speculation is that the guy who sold the house jacked up the pressure, and managed to break the pressure valve while doing it. Home inspector sort of shook his head. I bet those guys see a lot of garbage like that.
So, if I offered you a six pack and some burgers would you and your dog come over and kick some of that dirt off for me?
To be fair, I was told it's possible (but I think not likely) that the pipe runs straight in from the street and then 'up' to the house. Which could put the pipe pretty deep near the house. The one guy did mention the possiblilty of needing a "deep trencher", but I think that might have been a scare tactic to justify his 3500 bid.
Call some directional boring companies and see what they say.
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That is not even "Buried"
