Help me understand the Denver COL (CNN teachers article) (Aurora: sale, neighborhoods)

[sammy87]

Theres an opening in Douglas county for a spot. She made $75k/yr
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com...th-goes-viral/

TBH, I have no sympathy. Every 2 years the teachers and schools cry for more funding, there usually is a mil levy increase then cry again 2 years later for more money.

[Texas Ag 93]

On the other side of the equation, I think the student loan debt that young people have coming out of school these days is unlike anything those of us that graduated in the 80s or 90s experienced. They are behind the 8 ball right out of the gate. And yes, I think you have a responsibility to consider ROI when you go to school, but these are not all people who majored in underwater basket weaving at an Ivy league school and have 200K in debt. Student loan debt affects people with marketable degrees from public schools as well.

OTOH, there seems to be a growing trend of young people who are unwilling or unable to live with delayed gratification.

(Now I feel like Dana Carvey's old man on SNL yelling "Back in my day.....").

[emm74]

Originally Posted by Texas Ag 93

On the other side of the equation, I think the student loan debt that young people have coming out of school these days is unlike anything those of us that graduated in the 80s or 90s experienced. They are behind the 8 ball right out of the gate. And yes, I think you have a responsibility to consider ROI when you go to school, but these are not all people who majored in underwater basket weaving at an Ivy league school have 200K in debt. Student loan debt affects people with marketable degrees from public schools as well.

OTOH, there seems to be a growing trend of young people who are unwilling or unable to live with delayed gratification.

(Now I feel like Dana Carvey's old man on SNL yelling "Back in my day.....").

agree 100%

I think there are financial demands now that didn't exist before and it can be a struggle to make it on an income level that seems high in comparison to a couple of decades ago.

However, there are still some with an entitlement attitude who seem unwilling to understand that even back when things cost a little less, those of us at the start of our careers in high cost of living areas struggled too, lived with roommates in often run down apartments, relied on public transportation because we couldn't afford a car, could never have even conceived of owning a $1000 phone and had to scrimp and scrape to make it all work. I'm not saying these people are the majority but they do exist.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by sammy87

Theres an opening in Douglas county for a spot. She made $75k/yr
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com...th-goes-viral/

TBH, I have no sympathy. Every 2 years the teachers and schools cry for more funding, there usually is a mil levy increase then cry again 2 years later for more money.

She was a teacher with 20 years of experience. $75K seems pretty reasonable for an employee at that level.

We'll see how this strike plays out. It could certainly come back and bite DPS teachers in the ass if people believe that now that the teachers have gotten paid that the next bond measure isn't necessary.

Though I do wonder what the optics will end up being if the teachers get paid at the consequence of a few hundred administrative staff losing jobs. Certainly won't soothe over the rift that exists in DPS. Or when the horror stories start popping up of a few teachers abusing the in-house training credits to boost their salaries to ridiculous levels.

[otowi]

I think brown_dog_us made a good point - we're experiencing teacher shortages because of pay and job quality issues. Something has to be done to attract and retain quality teachers. Pay may be a piece of that, but could be compensated to a point by improving other factors.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

OP- I think there are examples of people that are bad with money in every profession. They're having trouble hiring and retaining teachers, and that's a sign that pay is too low though.

ETA: The problem is what type of lifestyle should teaching provide? Solid middle class? That can be tough in expensive places like Denver or LA.

You have some good points. However, CNN needs to pick better examples to make their points. Someone with three additional part time jobs is not a good money manager, or else has some extraordinary expenses they're not telling us about. Plus, if one is working three other part-time jobs, that sort of eliminates all this working on school work in one's free time that we're always hearing about, no? Don't get me wrong, I feel everyone should get paid for the work they do, but I do doubt some of the stories. I dunno about this trouble hiring-does anyone have stats?

Originally Posted by TCHP

In simple terms, graduates today may earn more in absolute dollars but they also are paying more in student loans, are paying more for health, homeowners, or auto insurance, and have more technological requirements for performing their jobs that often require them to constantly update skills. These are all condition that will apply to any teacher regardless of what city or state they teach in. In states with rapidly expanding costs of living, or decreasing population and tax bases, the problem is simple more acute.

In a broader scale, you also have the actual purchasing power of those wages and the percentages of increases within those wages that have been flat to dropping for decades.

Well, we're talking about Colorado, not any other state. I understand the student loan issue to a certain extent, but again, students with $100+K in loans are poor money managers, too, and have some credit card debt, maybe a car loan and/or other loans in addition to student loans as student loans are capped at $57,500 for undergraduates.
https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/l...d-unsubsidized
More for health? I'd like to see that documented. When I graduated from college in the Pleistocene, insurance didn't usually pay for outpatient (doctor) visits, glasses, dental stuff like that. Homeowners? I'd like to see some data. Ditto for car insurance. I'm a little skeptical about the tech requirements as well that require constant updating. Usually one learns that by doing or going to a short inservice. Many professions require continuing education.

Originally Posted by emm74

agree 100%

I think there are financial demands now that didn't exist before and it can be a struggle to make it on an income level that seems high in comparison to a couple of decades ago.

However, there are still some with an entitlement attitude who seem unwilling to understand that even back when things cost a little less, those of us at the start of our careers in high cost of living areas struggled too, lived with roommates in often run down apartments, relied on public transportation because we couldn't afford a car, could never have even conceived of owning a $1000 phone and had to scrimp and scrape to make it all work. I'm not saying these people are the majority but they do exist.

Exactly! Remember the classic of living in an attic apartment? No luxury apartments for most new graduates, even in 1970, maybe especially in 1970.

[Scorpion3510]

Originally Posted by otowi

Ah you're right it has gone down in the past month. However, that is for 85 octane, which is only sold in Colorado - if we compare 87 octane prices to match octanes with other states and what most owner's manuals say you should use, it is higher. I go for the 85, personally.

I was wondering about this. Why is Colorado & other mountain states allowed to use 85 instead of 87? I assume it has to do with elevation & lower air pressure but in modern fuel injected engines that shouldn't matter.


Gas here in CA is also $3.75 for a gallon of 87 regular so maybe I'm just trying justify why our gas is so high in comparison! (besides taxes)

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by otowi

It seems like some of those ought to be doable with roommates, etc., but they probably also have more debt than you did starting out due to school loans, etc. The median home price in Denver is about $425,000. By comparison, the average home price is Atlanta is barely over half that amount!

Typical rent burden with roommates is around $900 (3 bedroom average is $2500). To live alone, the average 1 bedroom rent is $1200. The minimum "living wage" for a single person in Denver County without any debt burden aside from housing is right around $30,000. If you have school loans, credit card debt, car payment, any attempts at eating out or entertainment, putting anything into savings and/or retirement accounts, etc., all that is additional income you need above the $30,000. For 1 adult and 1 child that jumps to $60,000 - beyond most teacher salaries until well into their careers. Gas is pretty high in Denver - not sure what you pay where you are, but right now maybe $2.25/gal is average -and that is lower than it is has been in awhile. Food with no eating out, need a minimum of $300/person/month according to living wage calculators. There are some expenses now that didn't exist in the past that are pretty standard - cell phones, Internet, etc. that can add to the utility burden - although shopping around for cell phone service can help.

I do think maybe some people could do better with managing their money and that is part of the problem. I think some people go for newer cars with payments when they could maybe buy a 10-year-old used one, etc. - just some expectations of what they should be able to do and what they really ought to be doing. I do think people today start off their careers with greater debt burdens than in the past, generally speaking, because of school loan debt being as high as ever.

I'd recommend looking beyond CO. What a rent rip-off. How is one's life SO much superior in Denver vs. Kansas City (for example)?

To me, quality of life is more about a nice career, financial stability, personal relationships, family, etc. Paying a very high premium in metro Denver does not make sense to me.

[Vision67]

Originally Posted by Scorpion3510

I was wondering about this. Why is Colorado & other mountain states allowed to use 85 instead of 87? I assume it has to do with elevation & lower air pressure but in modern fuel injected engines that shouldn't matter.
(besides taxes)

It's that darn physics!

At high altitudes each intake stroke of a normally aspirated engine sucks in less oxygen than at sea level.

Fuel injection does compensate for the mixture, but the power drops. Octane requirement is lower because less power is developed.

However, a modern turbo engine compensates for this effect. In fact, a modern turbo engine such as the Ford eco-boost will increase boost and power to compensate and take advantage of better gas by generating more power with higher octane gasoline.

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by sammy87

Theres an opening in Douglas county for a spot. She made $75k/yr
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com...th-goes-viral/

TBH, I have no sympathy. Every 2 years the teachers and schools cry for more funding, there usually is a mil levy increase then cry again 2 years later for more money.

Do the teachers strike like they do in Chicago? Sickening. Seems like it was every other year.

They ought to be able to fire teachers who stay out, preventing classrooms from opening so they can "strike".