Income Needed for Family of 4 to Live Comfortably in Dallas (Plano: houses, neighborhoods)

[mastershake575]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Perhaps I confused you with another poster who mentioned their sibljngs expenses were $4000

Yes and No. That was me that said the siblings spend less than 4k a month on bills with a family of 4 but there living a middle class lifestyle on an upper middle class budget (just under 140k is there income). The end result is there house is literally gonna be paid off in 4 more years (they have upper middle class income but middle class spending so there gonna have a 300k house paid off in just 6 years ). Paying off a 300k house in 6 years isn't regular middle class yet people are trying to argue that 125-150k isn't upper middle class income which is a joke

Just having 2 paid off cars and cooking meals at home literally takes $1600 dollars a month off there monthly budget using TurleCreeks budget for example (that would bring the montly total of TurtleCreeks budget to mid 5000s on an income of near mid 8000s a month take home). That's a good margin and both those factors (meals at home and not paying interest on a car) are actually perks to be honest, especially not making a car payment (nothing shows good income like paying a car straight up or buying it and paying it off way early)

I apologize if I wasn't clear but the point I was trying to make was you can't say over 8k a month take home isn't upper middle class when it's 2-2.25x more money then what most regular middle class families are spending per month and is over 2x higher than the median household income. The differental gives you a tier higher on everything all while having a better savings cushion.

It's also city dependant which is why where all giving ranges. $120-135k might be upper middle class for places like Wylie, Parts of East Richardson, Allen, East Plano, Parts of Central Plano, Carrollton.....ect where area's like the rest of central plano, West Richardson, Far North Dallas, West Dallas.....ect you'll want 10% higher to be safer, closer to 150k is better. Upper middle class is already a broad range (most sources will say anywhere from like 120k all the way to 175) and location makes it broader as well

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

I think your budget ($7200/mo) is in line with what I would consider upper midle class living (not factoring in the short term expense of childcare for infants/preschool), but you would need about $140k of income to meet that if contributing 6% to 401k and factoring in family coverage for health insurance etc., and at that income you would have close to zero positive monthly cash flow, which I would not conaider upper middle class, so really I would put the number closer to $160k year. You should have enough to meet all your expenses plus add additonal cash flow to accumulate savings/emergency fund etc.

I’m sorry but your math skills are horrendous. My budget is $7800/mo which is the NET PAY of a $125k married filing joint household already contributing 6% to 401k and $1,000/mo health insurance. Not $140k as you said.


At $160k income and not spending $1 extra dollar, the same family would be saving an additional $25,000 NET per year - on top of whatever they allocated out of the $18k fund for additional savings, college savings, not maxing out the budget’s car/food/travel/ household allocations, etc.


Gotta love how you just keep moving the goalposts to make the answer be whatever you want it to be. I’m peace out this thread — Life’s too short.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Yes, that was the entire point of the exercise. The income needed for an "upper-middle class" lifestyle. A mediocre $300k house that needs an updated kitchen and bath does not fit what I am asking about.

Well, you are a snob that is out of touch with normal people I guess.

Lots of 300-350 homes are upper-middle class and out of the reach of a good % of the population.

[mastershake575]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Well, you are a snob that is out of touch with normal people I guess.

That's an understatement

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

I’m sorry but your math skills are horrendous. My budget is $7800/mo which is the NET PAY of a $125k married filing joint household already contributing 6% to 401k and $1,000/mo health insurance. Not $140k as you said.


At $160k income and not spending $1 extra dollar, the same family would be saving an additional $25,000 NET per year - on top of whatever they allocated out of the $18k fund for additional savings, college savings, not maxing out the budget’s car/food/travel/ household allocations, etc.


Gotta love how you just keep moving the goalposts to make the answer be whatever you want it to be. I’m peace out this thread — Life’s too short.

Yeah i'm peacing out too. TC is extremely arrogant. Comes into a help forum to ask us about income then spends the whole time arguing becaues he doesn't like our answer (if you don't like our answer then why did you come on here to ask us ?). He acts like where selling him snake oil when in reality all of us have more experience then he does.......

The moment he tried to list a .5 acre lot house on a golf course as a "comp house" because he didn't like that I listed a good house for 330k is probably the moment t I should of peaced out of this thread

[Soccernerd]

I would say $60,000-$70,000.

It really depends on what one's opinion on "comfortably" is.

[Katana49]

Originally Posted by Soccernerd

I would say $60,000-$70,000.

It really depends on what one's opinion on "comfortably" is.

LOL... You haven't read the responses from the OP. That amount definitely wouldn't cut it.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Perhaps I confused you with another poster who mentioned their sibljngs expenses were $4000, people seem to be saying $4k-$5k is upper niddle class HH expenses, I was just pointing out how ludicrous that is with a $2300 house payment.

Upper middle class is not only able to cover your monthly expenses ($7000-$8000) but also have some poaitive monthly cash flow/savings. Hence my term "living comfortably".

FWIW my wife and I earned around 400k last year in total comp (income from job and investments) and our yearly expenses were 38k for the year. So there is a difference in what you are describing...middle class/upper middle income vs lifestyle are two very different things.

I also agree with you that a 300-350k home is not what I would consider an "upper middle class" neighborhood in the Dallas area especially with the way homes have appreciated. Maybe in some other areas of Texas that are more rural though. Everything must be taken with locality in mind.

I agree that you'd need to go above 500k to start to get into the upper middle neighborhoods but even then that depends on how long residents have been there - it's possible the area took off price wise and there are still some long time middle income earners around.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

$200k is way too high. Somewhere in the $120-140k HHI range is more like it, depending on spending habits. Some of these estimates are on the high side. And assuming no student loans or consumer debt.

$330k home with 10% down is going to be about $2200/mo PITI.
$800/mo other household (utilities, cable/internet, pool if have one)
$1000/mo for 2 cars including payments if needed.
$1200/mo for food
$300/mo kid activities
$300/mo vacation fund
$1500/mo other spending (additional insurance, college funds, medical, clothes, gifts, occasional childcare, charity, additional savings, etc).

That’s a net need of approx $7800/mo. Which grosses up to $125,000 assuming 6% 401k and $1000/mo family healthcare contribution.

$330-360k is the median home price range in Plano, Allen, McKinney, Rockwall, Grapevine, Richardson, etc.

I think the problem with "upper middle class" is that it's so subjective. It means something different to most people. Personally upper middle class families would live in West Plano, Frisco, West McKinney...and it's also reflective of the fact that the DFW area has become far more expensive than even 10 years ago. 10 years ago, a $300K house would have been higher end in places like Frisco for example. Now, that is a firmly middle class housing price, not even upper middle.

The only thing I would point out is that I'm guessing you made the assumption that there is one spouse working while the other stays home. Fair enough since the OP didnt explicitly say one way or another, but if both spouses are working, then day care becomes a VERY significant expense. For two kids in Collin County, you could easily spend between 1500 and 2000 per month, depending on ages of the kids and city.

Like you also assumed, the key is going to be how much debt is carried (outside of mortgage). With no non mortgage debt, $120K is very doable. Sadly, my anecdotal observation of friends and family is that far too many high income earners tend to spend up to their incomes, carrying expensive car payments, credit card debts, and just in general high spending, so $120K doesnt feel as comfortable as you would expect. My two cents.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

FWIW my wife and I earned around 400k last year in total comp (income from job and investments) and our yearly expenses were 38k for the year. So there is a difference in what you are describing...middle class/upper middle income vs lifestyle are two very different things.

I also agree with you that a 300-350k home is not what I would consider an "upper middle class" neighborhood in the Dallas area especially with the way homes have appreciated. Maybe in some other areas of Texas that are more rural though. Everything must be taken with locality in mind.

I agree that you'd need to go above 500k to start to get into the upper middle neighborhoods but even then that depends on how long residents have been there - it's possible the area took off price wise and there are still some long time middle income earners around.

Looks like you stated what I was thinking, only in a better way. This isnt 2005 anymore. Dallas is way more expensive to live in.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Well, you are a snob that is out of touch with normal people I guess.

Lots of 300-350 homes are upper-middle class and out of the reach of a good % of the population.

Sadly though, he might be right. $300k for a single family house is not really upper middle class anymore in any of the best, or even just average suburbs that appeal to families here in the metroplex. I've witnessed co workers and friends house hunting over the last couple of years. If your budget is under $300K, it's tough. Either you get outbid by all cash investors, or have to make some severe compromises on either commute, size or something else.