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Any believer who is doctrinally squared away with regard to the dispensations will understand that the rapture of the church is pre-tribulational. Some believers wrongly feel that the church must go through the tribulation as some sort of purification process. Or that it would somehow be unfair for the church to not go through the Tribulation. This is unscriptural. Every believer of the church-age is already positionally sanctified at the moment of faith in Christ. And ultimate sanctification occurs with the resurrection of the body. There is nothing scriptural about the Church going through the Tribulation. Heb 10:14 'For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are (positionally) sanctified. Every believer goes through trials and tribulations while alive on this earth. But at the moment of physical death, the believer enters into the presence of the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). There is no need for any portion of the church to be left behind to go though the judgments of the Tribulation.
God's plan for man is dispensational in nature. That means that at various times in human history God introduces changes in the way in which His plan is administered. There was first the age of the Gentiles, then the age of Israel. And currently we are living in the Church-age. The dispensation of the church. The Greek word OIKINOMIA is translated as 'stewardship' (1 Cor.9:17; Luke 16:2-4) and as 'administration'or in the KJV as 'dispensation' (Eph 1:10).
There is a vast difference in the way that God administers His plan to Israel and in the way He administers His plan to the church. Briefly, two differences between Israel and the church are as follows. 1] Israel was under the law. The church is under grace. 2] During the age of Israel, a priest had to come from the tribe of Levi. The priesthood was based on descent. Aaron's sons were heirs to the Levitical priesthood through physical birth (Lev 1:7-9). But in the church-age, every believer, male and female is a priest. The priesthood in the church-age is based on regeneration. The royal priesthood of the church-age believer is a higher priesthood than that of the Levitical priesthood and is after the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11; 1 Pet 2:9).
God has different programs for the church and Israel. And the age of Israel is not complete. It has been temporarily put on hold while God is calling out a body of believers for Christ. A royal family - a royal priesthood.
As the Son of God - the title for His deity - Jesus has a royal family - God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
As the Son of Man - the title for His humanity - Jesus has a royal family - the entire Davidic Dynasty.
When Jesus won the strategic victory over Satan at the Cross, He gained a new title. 'King of kings and Lord of lords and the bright morning star.' In order to call out a royal family to go along with His new title, God brought a screeching halt to the age of Israel and instituted the dispensation of the church. During this dispensation, everyone who believes in Christ for salvation becomes a part of the body of Christ - the church on earth. This is not a reference to the local church on the corner. It is a reference to the fact that everyone who receives Jesus Christ as Savior during the church-age becomes a new creation. A new spiritual species. Just as the Jew became a new racial species when Abraham was circumcised at the age of ninety-nine, every person who during the dispensation of the church places his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation becomes a new spiritual species (2 Cor. 5:17) He becomes Church. In the human race there is Gentile, Jew, and Church.
The church on earth is called the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27). Once God the Father has declared that the body of Christ is complete, then the dispensation of the church is terminated with the removal of the church from the earth and into heaven where she becomes the bride of Christ. The Christian marriage is a picture of the spritual relationship beteen Jesus and the church (Eph 5:22,23). The marriage takes place in heaven while the Tribulation is occurring on the earth.
Revelation 19:7 'Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb (Jesus) has come and His bride (the church) has made herself ready (having just undergone the judgment seat of Christ for the purpose of evaluation for eternal rewards 1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 14:10-12).'' 8] And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
The church takes no part in the Tribulation that is going on back on earth. The Tribulation is for the Jews and for the unbelieving nations who are on the earth. The Tribulation is in fact the last seven years which remain to the age of Israel. Before God turns His attention back to the Jews, He first removes the Church to Heaven for the purpose of the judgment seat of Christ and the marriage of the Lamb.
The Tribulation is called the time of Jacobs trouble. Jeremiah 30:7 'Alas!. for that day is great. There is none like it: And it is the time of Jacob's distress, But he will be saved from it.'
Israel is currently partially regathered into the land in a state of unbelief. The events of the Tribulation are designed to cause the Jews to realize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected. At the end of the Tribulation Jesus Christ will return to an already existing nation of Israel which will be under attack by the armies of the antichrist (Zechariah 14:1-9).
In Revelation 19:11 'Jesus is getting ready to return to the earth. 'And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; 12] And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself. 13] And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God.
And when Jesus returns to the earth, His bride - the church - returns with Him. Rev 19:14 'And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.' The armies following Him on white horses refers both to the angelic armies and to the church. 1 Thessalonians 3:13 speaks to this as well. 'so that He may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
When Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation, all Tribulational unbelievers will be thrown off the earth and into the eternal fire. This is the baptism of fire and is prophecised by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11-12 ''As for me, I baptize you with water for repentence, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, And I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12] ''And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will throughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unuenchable fire.'' This prophecy is fulfilled in Matthew 25:41. ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46] And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Now all unbelievers are cast off the earth at the end of the Tribulation. Only believers will go into the Millennium. If the rapture took place at the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation, then everyone would be resurrected at that time and there would be no mortal men left to go into the Millennial kingdom. The Millennium will be unique in a number of ways. One of those ways is that resurrected humanity and mortal man will co-exist on the earth.
Yes. During the Millennium, there will be both resurrected humanity and mortal man on the earth. Mortal men will live a long time during the Millennium but they will still be in their mortal bodies of corruption. Isa 65:20 states, ''No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Shall be thought accursed.
The Millennium starts off with believers only. Tribulational believers who survive to the end of the Tribulation will go into the Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies. The Church which had been resurrected (raptured) prior to the beginning of the Tribulation will return with Christ. Also at the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation, Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs will be resurrected. (Rev 20:4).
Yes. Passages such as 1 Thess 4:13-18; John 14:1-3; and 1 Cor 15:51-53 all refer to the rapture which is pre-tribulational.
Whenever I write anything about the rapture I like to include this link which has much to say about it. I don't know if the critics and the skeptics ever bother to go into it, but it is there for whoever is interested.
I will end with these statements of Dr. C. I. Scofield...
1(14:3) As a part of this discourse, which has been of comfort to the Church throughout the centuries, the Lord gives a promise of His personal return for His own people, a doctrine that is expanded by the Apostle Paul in 1 Th.4:13-18. This aspect of Christ's return is to be distinquished from His second coming to the earth to establish His kingdom (Rev.19:11-16).
1(1:8) The expression ''the day of our Lord Jesus Christ,'' identified with ''the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ'' (v. 7), is the period of blessing for the Church beginning with the rapture. This coming day is referred to as ''the day of the Lord Jesus'' (1 Cor.5:5; 2 Cor. 1:14), ''the day of Jesus Christ'' (Phil.1:6), and ''the day of Christ'' (Phil. 1:10; 2:16). (''The day of Christ'' in all six references in the N.T. is described as relating to the reward and blessing of the Church at the rapture and in contrast with the expression ''the day of the Lord'' (cp. Isa.2:12, marg.; Joel 1:15, note; Rev.19:19, note), which is related to judgment upon unbelieving Jews and Gentiles, and blessing on millennial saints (Zeph.3:8-20).
(New Scofield Reference Edition, footnotes for John 14:3 and 1 Corinthians 1:8, pages 1146 and 1233.)
No need to tell me! I knew already! I'm ready to receive the inheritance the Lord has prepared for us! Now if only more people would get a clue and get saved so they can too!
No need to tell me! I knew already! I'm ready to receive the inheritance the Lord has prepared for us! Now if only more people would get a clue and get saved so they can too!
Mike, I cry when I read the way you interpret the scripture. You take every word too literally and there is no way you can comprehend the scripture like this, no way! I do not have the time now to explain to you all you have quoted, but let me give you a few pointers.
a) Thes 4, talked about being with the Lord forever in the air. You then assume that the air is the sky. Thats wrong. The world is the air.
b) christ never promised his disciples or anybody that they were going to rapture, no! He only talked about the coming of a new kingdom and the promise of seeing God face to face.
These two points / statemets should guide you in interpreting scripture.
Mike, I cry when I read the way you interpret the scripture.
Then you will want to make sure that you have lots of tissues handy. May I suggest that you find a brand that is absorbent.
Quote:
You take every word too literally and there is no way you can comprehend the scripture like this, no way! I do not have the time now to explain to you all you have quoted, but let me give you a few pointers.
a) Thes 4, talked about being with the Lord forever in the air. You then assume that the air is the sky. Thats wrong. The world is the air.
b) christ never promised his disciples or anybody that they were going to rapture, no! He only talked about the coming of a new kingdom and the promise of seeing God face to face.
These two points / statemets should guide you in interpreting scripture.
To the contrary. Your refusal to take literally that which is literal allows you to deny what the Scriptures say and make the Bible mean whatever you want it to mean. Your statement that there is no way to comprehend the Scripture when taken literally is completely false. The exact opposite is true. It is by spiritualizing everything that confusion and heretical teachings arise. Your statement also brings up the point that when taken literally as it is intended to be taken, that the rapture is of necessity pre-tribulational. Some parts of Scripture do contain allegory. Some parts of the Bible are poetic. Some parts are historic. There is much descriptive language, symbolic language. All the language that is symbolic refers to things which are real. And there is plain, in your face, literal language which is to be understood as literal.
The air mentioned in 1 Thess 4:17 is not a reference to the world. The rapture of the church removes the church from the world. ''Then we who are alive and remain (on the earth) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Compare with John 14:2 where Jesus did indeed promise that the church would be taken up into Heaven. ''In My Father's house (the third heaven) are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.' And no, that is not a reference to the Millennial kingdom. Heaven first. Then a return to the earth after some seven years where Jesus will set up His Millennial kingdom.
The Lord returns for the Church to take her back into heaven where the judgment seat of Christ and the marriage of the Lamb takes place. At the same time, the Tribulation is occurring on the earth. When Christ returns, He returns with His bride - the church, and brings the Tribulation to a close.
As a result of spiritualizing the Bible some people come to believe that there is no literal heaven or hell, or Satan or demons, or angels. Yet, the Bible is clear that these things are all stated by the Scriptures as being real.
The event which has come to be known as the rapture, is the catching up of the living church-age believer to meet (in the clouds) the Lord who has returned from Heaven with those church-age believers who have previously died. Then they all return to Heaven for the afore mentioned bema seat judgment and the marriage of the Lamb.
I'll not repeat all the things which I have already stated in the original post. People can go back and read or reread them. One thing which I will add to what I already said is that at the rapture, believers are taken off the earth and unbelievers remain on the earth. At the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation, it is unbelievers who are taken off the earth (cast into the eternal fire - Matthew 25:41) and believers are left on the earth. The opposite of what happens at the rapture.
No one who insists on spiritualizing and allegorizing everything in the Bible will ever have a proper understanding of the Scriptures.
And no one who rejects the reality of the dispensational nature of God's plan will ever be able to properly orient themselves with regard to that plan.
A good subject that should be studied deeply, and personally. I believe that the Scriptures should be interpreted not only literally, but spiritually and personally as well, at all times. In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christians who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.
Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power/authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.
Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways, mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity.
Had the Apostle Paul wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions, would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the "air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what I have discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project, or the world as we know it. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices and message in place without giving the wrong impression to his listeners, he chose to use ἀέρα to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world, but rather being part of its redemptive process. A very personal and spiritual realization that was not only promised to Israel as a covenant people of which whom had faith in God and the coming Messiah, but to the church as a whole, involving both Gentile and Jew. This is the marriage of the Lamb and the Bride. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm a cosmological dualism.
God bless you in your studies.
Last edited by JerimiahJohnson; 08-08-2010 at 08:49 AM..
Scripture should be interpreted not only literally, but spiritually and personally as well, at all times.
Bible doctrine cannot be understood apart from the believer being filled with the Holy Spirit who is the true mentor. The Holy Spirit teaches the human spirit. But never with regard to anything that is not a part of the Scriptures.
This is why it is necessary to name your known sins to God the Father as per 1 John 1:9 before studying the word of God, so that the Holy Spirit is in control of the soul and able to make perspicacious the spiritual phenomenon of Bible doctrine.
Spirituality is not in opposition to literalness, Spirituality is in opposition to carnality-being under the control of the old sin nature as a result of unnamed sin.
Mike I just don't think you have all the answers like you believe you do. Dispensationalism is a specific format and outlining of a book that cannot be handled that way. I always believed it too but now I question man's take on the whole dispensational teaching. It looks good in theory and on paper, but is that really how God meant for His word to be handled? Broken down into three parts and then forced on people as the truth? I have a lot of studying to do but I know for a fact that hell does not mean what dispensationlists/literalists would like for us to believe so that makes me question the whole man-made theory of dispensationalism.
Mike I just don't think you have all the answers like you believe you do. Dispensationalism is a specific format and outlining of a book that cannot be handled that way. I always believed it too but now I question man's take on the whole dispensational teaching. It looks good in theory and on paper, but is that really how God meant for His word to be handled? Broken down into three parts and then forced on people as the truth? I have a lot of studying to do but I know for a fact that hell does not mean what dispensationlists/literalists would like for us to believe so that makes me question the whole man-made theory of dispensationalism.
Reality is what it is regardless of anyones feelings about it. Dispensations are the outlline of human history as expressed from the divine viewpoint. A dispensational approach to the word of God is exactly how God expects man to handle the Scriptures. I gave a brief description of what dispensations refer to in the original post. It refers to the various ways in which God administers His plan at specific periods in human history.
A good subject that should be studied deeply, and personally. I believe that the Scriptures should be interpreted not only literally, but spiritually and personally as well, at all times. In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christians who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.
Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power/authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.
Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways, mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity.
Had the Apostle Paul wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions, would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the "air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what I have discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project, or the world as we know it. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices and message in place without giving the wrong impression to his listeners, he chose to use ἀέρα to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world, but rather being part of its redemptive process. A very personal and spiritual realization that was not only promised to Israel as a covenant people of which whom had faith in God and the coming Messiah, but to the church as a whole, involving both Gentile and Jew. This is the marriage of the Lamb and the Bride. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm a cosmological dualism.
God bless you in your studies.
To the contrary. As I have already shown in John 14:2-3, the church is raptured into Heaven. Not for eternity but for the duration of the Tribulation during which time both the bema seat judgment and the marriage of the Lamb take place (Rev 19:7-8). The church then returns with Christ to the earth at which point He will establish the Millennial kingdom.
At the rapture, Christ returns in the air (to the atmosphere) to catch up living church-age believers where their bodies will be translated - changed from mortal to immortal. Those believers who have previously died will at that time be resurrected. This event terminates the dispensation of the church. It clears the way for the resumption of the final seven years of the age Israel which we call the tribulation.
The Church-age believer's citizenship is said to be in heaven. (Phil 3:20-21). At the moment of physical death, the believer goes into the presence of the Lord in heaven (2 Cor 5:8-9). But at the rapture, those living believers on the earth will also be taken up into heaven.
When Christ returns to the earth, not at the rapture, but at the end of the Tribulation seven years later, His return will be as lightning flashing from the east to the west (Matthew 24:27).
The creation of the new heavens and earth takes place after the Millennium. Not at His return at the end of the Tribulation. The Millennium is the final dispensation of human history and will consist of both resurrected humanity and mortal man co-existing together.
When using Greek, it is pointless to use the actual Greek word since people who don't know the Greek have no idea what it means. It is much better to use the transliteration of the Greek instead,
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