Is Berwyn truly integrated, or are we experiencing white flight? (Chicago: low income, section 8)

[lifelongchicagoland]

After wrestling with moving to the Southwestern US two years ago, I decided to stay put in Chicagoland and purchase my first home in Berwyn based on its close proximity to my job downtown and its solid housing stock. I also looked in Edgewater and Rogers Park in the city (too expensive for what I wanted), Forest Park (good square footage but lousy house condition) and Itasca (too far from downtown but beautiful housing)

Now, I'm concerned that I may have made a bad investment in this town. Although everyone on here seems to be pro-Berwyn, there are signs that this town is starting to experience more white flight. While I prefer to live in an integrated community, there's a difference between a town that has a history of black, white, hispanic, asian living side by side vs one that only appears to be integrated because all of the white people haven't moved out yet. Example, Oak Park has a history of integration, and while some areas are more mixed than others, there is diversity throughout the town. People of all ethnicties and races move in and out, and there doesn't seem to be huge ethnic fluctuations. Compare this to Matteson, where a white homeowner sells and a black family buys, and there's little diversity left. Stores and restaurants are closing, and crime is increasing. Most of the white families still residing in Matteson live in a mobile home park, are married interracially, or can't afford to leave. This is especially sad as Matteson has some beautiful houses, and tried to maintain a diverse town with advertising campaigns in the 90's (just like Berwyn did a couple years ago) with little success.

Here is what I'm noticing in Berwyn. I live in the Northeast corner of Berwyn, 13th and Cuyler. I chose this location because I can still walk to the Blue Line at Lombard St in Oak Park to get to my job downtown. There is a large apartment building on 13th and Ridgeland, that is now pretty much all African-American within the past year, and the house two doors down was purchased by an older African-American woman a couple months ago. There is also another African-American homeowner that bought their house around the same time I moved in, but I rarely see him. While the newest homeowner herself seems nice enough, she has multiple family members that are over all the time, hanging out on the staircase and congregating every weekend. The younger men walk three or four to a row and walk down the middle of the street and do not move out of the way. The homeowner used to live in Austin, and I'm assuming given our close proximity to the Austin border that Berwyn is an attractive option for those looking for greener pastures without significantly uprooting one's social life. I've noticed that there's been a significant increase in African Americans walking down Ridgeland, and also 16th street when schools let out in the afternoon. I though this town was gentrifying based on some of the newer businesses that were popping up on Roosevelt like The Wire and Autre Monde, but lately I haven't seen anything coming in.

At the end of the day, I don't want to deal with all of the social ills that white flight leaves in its path. Again, an STABLE INTEGRATED area is fine, but I don't want to be the only white family left on my block with an upside down house and crime worries.

My question is, should I be worried at this point about white/hispanic flight, or is Berwyn simply diversifying and will remain a diverse area with families of all colors living side by side? That is my question. Please don't spout off about the political correctness of my question, unless you want to make my mortgage payment and are willing to pay the difference of my house if I lose money on the sale.

I attached a link from the latest census figures to show what I'm referring to. I thought I was moving to a stable, integrated area, and now I'm questioning if this is truly what Berwyn is.

Berwyn, IL Population - Census 2010 and 2000 Interactive Map, Demographics, Statistics, Quick Facts - CensusViewer

Thank you in advance for your feedback.

[Squeamish]

I've read a fair amount about such things, and based on the data provided in your link, it's probably too early to say for sure which way it will go. The link states 2010 census 6.4% Black, and that is nowhere near the "tipping points" that I recall reading about. Also, the first wave of Blacks that own their own homes are typically just like you and I and do not cause the typical problems associated with white flight. That typically happens later on when folks start renting their houses to Section 8. I wonder if you could find out what percentage of your neighborhood is on Section 8. A lot of people will kill me for admitting it, but there is a STRONG correlation between Section 8 renters and high crime.

Also, from reviewing the demographic maps over the years, white flight, the subsequent black flight, and crime all have a VERY geographic component to them. The blight will spread very consistently in various directions sometimes up to municipality boundaries and sometimes across them. Compare one block closer to Austin from you with one block farther away from Austin from you and see if you notice any differences.

[treemoni]

Your post is implying two things: 1. that a town isn't truly integrated if there are no white families and 2. that black people moving in automatically spells trouble. You haven't said anything about the black neighbors causing trouble, so I struggle to see why you felt it was necessary to even mention your neighbor's family members walking down the street. Would you have mentioned this if they were white? Rhetorical question.

I hope you DO move and Berwyn continues to integrate people of color into the community. People with your mindset are the problem. Integration doesn't need white people and Berwyn is doing just fine.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by lifelongchicagoland

My question is, should I be worried at this point about white/hispanic flight, or is Berwyn simply diversifying and will remain a diverse area with families of all colors living side by side? That is my question.

Also, Latinos are not "fleeing" anything, as they make up the majority of Berwyn. That is hardly the "diverse" community you claim to be looking for. It is interesting that you lumped whites and Latinos in the same category. Why don't you just admit that you do not want to live near black people, sell your home and take your 1950s mindset with you? People like you are what's wrong with America.

[lifelongchicagoland]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Also, Latinos are not "fleeing" anything, as they make up the majority of Berwyn. That is hardly the "diverse" community you claim to be looking for. It is interesting that you lumped whites and Latinos in the same category. Why don't you just admit that you do not want to live near black people, sell your home and take your 1950s mindset with you? People like you are what's wrong with America.

If I had 50's mindset, Berwyn would have never been an option to begin with. I would have moved to New Lenox or Mokena and called it a day. I knew Berwyn had a large, diverse Latino population of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Columbians, and that DOESN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL. My son is half Puerto Rican himself, so nice try on the race card.

Back to the topic at hand. My issues aren't that there are a few African Americans now on the block. What I don't want to experience is what my friends in Matteson and Calumet City had to go through with white flight (depressed property values, crime increase, foreclosed houses and schools that quickly deteriorated) before they moved further southwest. Again, I have no problems with a mixed community (including African Americans), but I don't want to be in an area that experiences rapid white flight. The African Americans I'm encountering are not moving from Oak Park or Edgewater, but from bad Chicago neighborhoods like Austin and Garfield Park. This may be part of the problem. We're not integrating middle class families, but rather low income renters (the apartment buildings on Ridgeland) and a middle class African American who has scores of lower class family members coming over and hanging out and creating trouble for all of us!

At the end of the day, I am speaking openly and honestly about my concerns, and would appreciate some respect. I know a lot of people feel the same way I do, but may be afraid to ask these questions for fear of dealing with judgmental people like yourself.

[treemoni]

I'm not judgmental--I find your post racist. There are hardly any white families in Berwyn now, so stop trying to act like that's your issue. Your issue is that you don't like the black people moving in. As you said, Latinos don't bother you. It's clear that white people don't bother you because you don't want them to move out (too late, because they already have). There are plenty of low-income Latino families in Berwyn whose kids are hanging in the streets. Funny you don't mention them.

[lifelongchicagoland]

Originally Posted by Squeamish

I've read a fair amount about such things, and based on the data provided in your link, it's probably too early to say for sure which way it will go. The link states 2010 census 6.4% Black, and that is nowhere near the "tipping points" that I recall reading about. Also, the first wave of Blacks that own their own homes are typically just like you and I and do not cause the typical problems associated with white flight. That typically happens later on when folks start renting their houses to Section 8. I wonder if you could find out what percentage of your neighborhood is on Section 8. A lot of people will kill me for admitting it, but there is a STRONG correlation between Section 8 renters and high crime.

Also, from reviewing the demographic maps over the years, white flight, the subsequent black flight, and crime all have a VERY geographic component to them. The blight will spread very consistently in various directions sometimes up to municipality boundaries and sometimes across them. Compare one block closer to Austin from you with one block farther away from Austin from you and see if you notice any differences.

I will look into that. If you have any other resources, please let me know. I used to think my friends were just crazy racist, but after seeing everything towns like Matteson are going through (crime increases, stores leaving, tax base eroding), it puts a new perspective on the situation.

Thanks for the helpful answer!

[lifelongchicagoland]

Originally Posted by treemoni

I'm not judgmental--I find your post racist. There are hardly any white families in Berwyn now, so stop trying to act like that's your issue. Your issue is that you don't like the black people moving in. As you said, Latinos don't bother you. It's clear that white people don't bother you because you don't want them to move out (too late, because they already have). There are plenty of low-income Latino families in Berwyn whose kids are hanging in the streets. Funny you don't mention them.

The town is still close to 1/3 white, and that's fine with me that it's mixed. Income/racial diversity is ok too, as long as it's not ALL poor, ALL minority. However, I don't want to be stuck in a town that is gone completely ghetto. Look at some of the nearby towns that have experienced dramatic white flight like Maywood or Bellwood and tell me how the loss of a white population has helped these towns? Look how bad there schools are, and the lack of desirability these towns provide.

Let's stop playing the race card, and look at this from a realistic perspective.

[treemoni]

I don't play any "race card". I discuss reality.

You should move.

[treemoni]

Also, do you realize Latinos are counted as "white" so that could be the reason for the 1/3. I doubt Berwyn is really 1/3 white.