North Shore Real Estate Market? (Wilmette, Winnetka: attorney, buy, school districts)
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There are 100 less kindergarden students in the district now than in 8th grade. We have lost 302 student from 2006 - 302/2167. Thats almost 15% in just six years. At the same time the board keeps taxing the levy to the maximum amount possible even though there is a 54 Million surplus.
These are facts. One may interpret them any way you choose.
There are 100 less kindergarden students in the district now than in 8th grade. We have lost 302 student from 2006 - 302/2167. Thats almost 15% in just six years. At the same time the board keeps taxing the levy to the maximum amount possible even though there is a 54 Million surplus.
These are facts. One may interpret them any way you choose.
That's correct. However many families do move here after kindergarten Anthera. Several prefer all-day kindergarten so stay where they or send their children to one of the local Catholic or private schools then make the switch. Perhaps it's time to address that issue to the school board.
Again, back to the original discussion-yes the market is improving rapidly!
Families with young kids have always had a hard time affording Winnetka, which tends to attract 40-something homebuyers looking for a "last house." So there are lots of teenagers. During the long boom, some younger people either brought in the big bucks or were able to borrow them, so the younger-kid population mushroomed and now is going back down.
There is nothing wrong with the schools, but Wilmette's are just as good, for half to two-thirds the real estate cost. But Wilmette is upper-middle class, not upper class, and you don't get that "Great Gatsby" feeling.
I’m having a hard time believing the tax rates in Winnetka would be a huge issue by themselves for most new families looking at the area. Assuming they can afford Winnetka, wouldn’t the difference between the board voting for the max increase and what others consider a reasonable amount be a rounding error in a family’s monthly budget? How does the tax rate compare to the other towns that feed in to New Trier?
Do other NS suburbs offer full day Kindergarten? Is there a perception that some of the schools that feed in to New Trier are better than others? It seems to me these would be more significant issues in choosing where to live, unless the tax differences are much larger than I imagine. Is this impacting certain segments (locations, price points) of the NS real estate market more than others?
Lots of people forget that property tax is detached from ability to pay...
While it is true that for many people who've bought relatively recently annual property of between 1.5%-3% of the market value ought to be no burden even on house in the multi-million category the folks who've sat on properties for decades are in a different pickle.
For the most part there are lots of retirees that have (prudently...) put their savings into fixed income investments but the returns on those investments have not kept pace with the combined effect of rising property values and insatiable needs of local tax levies.
Of course should the oldsters (and the occasional p.o.'d middle aged cranks...) want to "cash out the old homestead" they probably would make out LIKE BANDITS so I really have no sympathy for their carping, and ultimately the controversy HURTS the desirability of the homes when potentially buyers worry that schools are in "turmoil".
The vast majority of home owners in higher end suburbs are VERY supportive of locally administered property taxes and appreciate the high quality of schools and other services. Too often their silence is taken advantage of by the handful of shortsighted cranks that use occasional upticks in participative democracy by the minority of voters to create controversy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrock847
I’m having a hard time believing the tax rates in Winnetka would be a huge issue by themselves for most new families looking at the area. Assuming they can afford Winnetka, wouldn’t the difference between the board voting for the max increase and what others consider a reasonable amount be a rounding error in a family’s monthly budget? How does the tax rate compare to the other towns that feed in to New Trier?
Do other NS suburbs offer full day Kindergarten? Is there a perception that some of the schools that feed in to New Trier are better than others? It seems to me these would be more significant issues in choosing where to live, unless the tax differences are much larger than I imagine. Is this impacting certain segments (locations, price points) of the NS real estate market more than others?
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Do other NS suburbs offer full day Kindergarten? Is there a perception that some of the schools that feed in to New Trier are better than others? It seems to me these would be more significant issues in choosing where to live, unless the tax differences are much larger than I imagine. Is this impacting certain segments (locations, price points) of the NS real estate market more than others?
The only full day kindy options are private schools. The Avoca kindergarden day ends around 2. Though it's not a full day it's better than the 2 hours and 25 minutes the other schools have. Many parents make up for this by sending their kids to the park district enrichment program or Montessori. For a hefty fee of course. Up until recently kids in Winnetka went home for lunch at the elementary level.
As for the NT feeder schools Wilmette is known to have the best academically prepared students as does Avoca and Glencoe. But keep in mind this all perception. It doesn't really seem to effect real estate prices though. I know some families who left Winnetka but the schools are catching up and it's no longer to seen as big of a problem. (Chet and Relst8 can attest.) Although if you asked parents you may get a different response. My realtor described the Winnetka schools as going thru a "renaissance".
Larry, thanks again for the perspective. When we were looking to move from the city 12 years ago we lost out on multiple houses to other young families so I assumed all of Winnetka was mostly this demographic. I had no idea it had ever been any different! I know east is home to more established families. Just makes sense with the prices and relative lack of housing turnover.
While it is true that for many people who've bought relatively recently annual property of between 1.5%-3% of the market value ought to be no burden even on house in the multi-million category the folks who've sat on properties for decades are in a different pickle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
For the most part there are lots of retirees that have (prudently...) put their savings into fixed income investments but the returns on those investments have not kept pace with the combined effect of rising property values and insatiable needs of local tax levies.
Thanks Chet - that was kind of what I suspected. I’ve seen this same scenario play out in other areas before. I’m sure the rocky real estate market and the lack of returns on investments has made things tough for some long-time residents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah H.
The only full day kindy options are private schools. The Avoca kindergarden day ends around 2. Though it's not a full day it's better than the 2 hours and 25 minutes the other schools have. Many parents make up for this by sending their kids to the park district enrichment program or Montessori. For a hefty fee of course. Up until recently kids in Winnetka went home for lunch at the elementary level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah H.
As for the NT feeder schools Wilmette is known to have the best academically prepared students as does Avoca and Glencoe. But keep in mind this all perception. It doesn't really seem to effect real estate prices though. I know some families who left Winnetka but the schools are catching up and it's no longer to seen as big of a problem. (Chet and Relst8 can attest.) Although if you asked parents you may get a different response. My realtor described the Winnetka schools as going thru a "renaissance".
Sarah, thanks for the detailed on the ground perspective. It’s nice to hear the specifics, like what parents do for extra enrichment, that one can’t pick up without actually talking to someone who has lived it.
On a side note, I do think it’s interesting that the less expensive areas (Wilmette, Avoca, Glencoe) seem to have a slight edge in academically preparing students for New Trier. Without reading this thread, I would have assumed the Winnetka schools and Sears had a slight advantage academically, just based on the usual correlation between house price per sqft and school desirability. Of course, as has been mentioned, they are all good schools and the differences may be perception.
One more question. There was a comment earlier in the thread that there were less buyers with young kids now that during the boom. That got me wondering has the pool of North Shore buyers really changed since the pre-boom and boom years?
In other words are you seeing more vs. less first time buyers, older vs. younger families, larger downpayments vs. larger mortgages? Or have things been pretty consistent?
Shamrock, I was told by our realtor that many families with young kids are coming to the NS. She said they're wanting perfect ready to move in homes so maybe more are scared off and going to suburbs with more newer homes. I know that in my neighborhood more homes are sold to young families. But where I live is in the middle in terms of the Wilmette housing prices. I think young families are still leaving the city for suburban schools. But this is just my opinion. I'm no expert.
As for your thoughts on the schools and housing prices, Wilmette Jr. High is the largest feeder school, which has its advantages. Avoca gets a big part of its money from the tax revenue generated from Edens Plaza so they have more tech options and more resouces in general. Glencoe's real estate prices are high but volume is generally low and I think prices are higher than Winnetka. Sears in Kenilworth isn't a bad school but it's tiny. The 8th grade class is about 50-60 kids most years. Not bad but some kids have a hard time transition to B-I-G New Trier. All the schools are excellent, with the exception of the "dark years" in Winnetka. But keep in mind the schools during Winnetka's "dark years" are still better than a lot of schools in this country. It also may be a matter of parents' educational demands being unrealistic in addition to the schools being out of date. Not just the schools' issue. I haven't personally lived it, just heard from Winnetka parents. Glad I live in Wilmette though!
Families with young kids have always had a hard time affording Winnetka, which tends to attract 40-something homebuyers looking for a "last house." So there are lots of teenagers. During the long boom, some younger people either brought in the big bucks or were able to borrow them, so the younger-kid population mushroomed and now is going back down.
There is nothing wrong with the schools, but Wilmette's are just as good, for half to two-thirds the real estate cost. But Wilmette is upper-middle class, not upper class, and you don't get that "Great Gatsby" feeling.
Yes, Winnetka isn't affordable for many, especially those looking for a turnkey home. Winnetka attracts many young families not just those "40-something" buyers looking for the "last house". In fact usually, like Sara said, once a family gets established in a community and their children are in the schools they aren't moving out of their community. The people I see nearly every Sunday at opens in Winnetka are typically early 30s with small kids. During the "long boom" those young buyers were the tail end of the boomers so yes that population of home buyers has receded everywhere.
Wilmette is fabulous! Those of us on the NS are fortunate to have many great suburbs surrounding us. It certainly isn't 2/3s the cost except perhaps in west Wilmette or west of Ridge. East Wilmette feels very much like Winnetka and is comparable in sales prices.
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Lots of people forget that property tax is detached from ability to pay...
