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Many of the far southern suburbs are starting to look very similar to some of the middle class and upper income majority black suburbs in Prince Georges county maryland, outside of washington, DC. And that is not at all a bad thing. The far southern suburbs is changing to mostly a middle income and upper income black area with a high tax base. I guess one thing the area can count on and has going for itself is segregation and the ideal of white flight is alive and well. While at the same time, many middle class and upper income blacks are finally starting to take hold to the ideal that there is financial strength in numbers. And economic growth, low crime, good schools, friendly neighborhoods, and adequate government services can exist in a majority black middle class suburban area. Home prices are favorable and the housing stock is great. Crime relatively low. The schools are graduating kids at acceptable rates and improving test scores in many cases such as matteson's school district. All of the complaining about the area seems to come from whites who have already chosen to move on anyway.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-24-2011 at 09:24 AM..
You must be young - under 30 perhaps. Get a little older and you will get used to it. You will learn that in general, White people just do not like Black people.
Regardless of income, education level, socioeconomic class, it appears that most white people want nothing to do with black people.
They don't want to live with blacks, they don't want their kids to go to school with blacks, they don't socialize with blacks. A black family moves in, and like clockwork the white families move out - which makes no sense, because if they just stayed put there wouldn't be any kind of housing turnover.
It is really a shame.
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Really now? It takes two to tango. Usually this expression refers to sex but it can refer to basic socialization too. I guess with all the posts on this website that read like white people are oh-so-innocent (as far as crime is concerned), it was only a matter of time that posts talking like black people are oh-so-innocent were written (as far as tollerance is concerned).
I still remember my freshman year in high school sitting an an almost entirely black classroom. Who did I associating with? The two white guys in the back of the class. You think I wasn't trying to make friends with other kids? Of course I was. But people just tend to gravitate to and are more tolerant of other people who look similar. You ever notice how hot girls have hot girl friends and fat girls have fat friends? I rest my case. Oh, and I'm no longer friends with those two guys but years later, I'm still friends with a black guy who dressed Gothic who sat at my table in the cafeteria. In spite of the difference in skin color, he dressed similarly to how I dressed unlike most of the school.
Last fall, I was riding my bicycle on Sauk Trail in Richton Park. As I passed a group of young black guys, one of them made a "rah!" sound and quickly shot his arms towards me as I passed them. He was trying to make it seem like he was gonna knock me off my bike and laughed afterwords. Basically, just an attempt at intimidation. I just kept on rolling and said "F*** you!" behind me. He replied "Whatch you say, white boy?" but at this point I was half a block away and just continued on with my journey. I don't live in Richton Park and am actually considering moving there but I can't help but think that it's incidents like this that help trigger white flight.
Really now, you think there's not an attitude among some black people have that this is a black neighborhood (even if it's actually mixed neighborhood) and whites aren't welcome? Of course there are.
As for the far south suburbs, I've lived in this area my whole life and I'm proud to call it home. It may not be a very happening place like the north side of the city but it is where all but one of my closest friends live.
If I had to venture a gues it would be that in 2020 Homewood and Flossmoor will only be about 25% white. True "equal" diversity in the south suburbs is just a flash in the pan - that one moment when the a town is 50% white and 50% black. After that the percentages will move farther and farther apart. Look at South Holland in 2000, 44% white/51% black and now in 2010, 18% white/74% black. Same trend is now happening just as fast in Lansing. There is one interesting side effect to this. Is is quite evident that in this area, most whites don't really prefer to live in towns where they are the minority. The problem for these changing towns is that while they may be maintaining the same social-economic class of residents, overall home values will deline. The homebuyers in the future of these communities will probably be something like 25% white and 75% black. Regardless of these prospective homebuyers incomes, the market for the homes has shrunk significantly since most many whites will no longer be among the market pool. While prices will level off eventually, there will be price decline beyond what the recession is creating in the meantime.
The white demographics in homewood will hold a bit better than that. Downtown homewood and the residential neighborhoods bordering the downtown still are attracting majority white homebuyers. And white apartment renters, which says alot. Rentals are usually the first to change race when an area is racially changing. Most of downtown homewoods rentals are rented by whites. But, Flossmoor will probably end up resembling the demographics of neighboring olympia fields and becoming predominantly affluent black over time with a sizable affluent white minority that continues to move to certain areas of town. Most of Flossmoor east of kedzie, particularly the flossmoor estates area still has a sizable amount of new homebuyers that are white. Looking at recent home sales data, most blacks just don't have last names like panio and stein. Flossmoor reminds me alot of affluent Bowie, Maryland. Very slow to change and some parts change less than others. I have family who live in prince georges county, maryland. The wealthiest majority african american county in the country.
All of the other middle class suburbs in the area are already predominantly black. Including affluent Olympia Fields which is 69.5 percent black and 25.3 percent white. Matteson is 78 percent black and 16 percent white. Country club hills is 87 percent black and 8.7 percent white. Richton park is 82 percent black and 12 percent white. Any fear from future price decline caused by white flight in these suburbs has passed because white flight has already happened.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-24-2011 at 11:41 AM..
All of the other middle class suburbs in the area are already predominantly black. Including affluent Olympia Fields which is 69.5 percent black and 25.3 percent white. Matteson is 78 percent black and 16 percent white. Country club hills is 87 percent white and 8.7 percent white. Richton park is 82 percent black and 12 percent white. Any fear from future price decline caused by white flight in these suburbs has passed because white flight has already happened.
Calling Richton Park "middle class" seems shaky to me, especially with all the rentals (not just Richton Square). It does depend on the neighborhood though. Olympia Fields definitely isn't middle class but for opposite reasons. Although there prabobly are a few middle class families in Olympia Fields, there aren't very many.
By the way, the racial demographics for Park Forest in 2010 were 59.8% black, 33.4% white and 6.4% Hispanic.
Calling Richton Park "middle class" seems shaky to me, especially with all the rentals (not just Richton Square). It does depend on the neighborhood though. Olympia Fields definitely isn't middle class but for opposite reasons. Although there prabobly are a few middle class families in Olympia Fields, there aren't very many.
By the way, the racial demographics for Park Forest in 2010 were 59.8% black, 33.4% white and 6.4% Hispanic.
Richton park as a whole is very much a predominantly black and middle class suburb. Median household income (in 2009 inflation-adjusted dollars) is $61,217 as of 2009. Median family income (in 2009 inflation-adjusted dollars) is $78,284 as of 2009. Richton park does have some apartment complexes. But the majority of richton park as its median income reflects is solidly middle class. Normal suburban single family homes and there are also a couple of newer subdivisions with larger homes.
Richton park as a whole is very much predominantly black and middle class. Median household income (in 2009 inflation-adjusted dollars) is $61,217 as of 2009. Median family income (in 2009 inflation-adjusted dollars) is $78,284 as of 2009. Richton park does have some apartment complexes. But the majority of richton park as median income reflects is solidly middle class. Most of richton park is nice middle class single family homes. Richton park also has a decent amount of newer housing stock.
And some of those single family houses are for rent. I know because I might be living in one depending on life factors. If I can afford it with two roomates then it's not middle class, lol. The house is smack dab in the middle of an old Richton Park neighborhood and my share of rent for the house would be 200 bucks a month (my room is the smallest). There are newer bigger subdivisions in Richton Park but without them, I doubt the median income would be that different than Park Forest.
And some of those single family houses are for rent. I know because I might be living in one depending on life factors. If I can afford it with two roomates then it's not middle class, lol. The house is smack dab in the middle of an old Richton Park neighborhood and my share of rent for the house in this "solidly middle class town" is 200 bucks a month. There are newer bigger subdivisions in Richton Park but without them, I doubt the median income would be that different than Park Forest.
Richton park does have similar housing stock to park forest in it's more modest neighborhoods. Small 2-3 bedroom ranches that are less than a 1,000 sqft, with no basements, and are sitting on small lots. But park forest has far more of these kind of homes and park forest has that huge area of those co-op townhownes and condos. Aside from the apartment complexes and outdated small ranches, Richton park's housing stock overall is a step up from park forest. Not that park forest isn't a decent area. Just not overall middle class like richton park. Although, park forest does have several middle class neighborhoods with some nice homes. Particularly, there are some very lovely homes in the thorn creek neighborhood of park forest sitting on mature wooded lots.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-24-2011 at 01:35 PM..
This is why it is so important for us to have our own nice majority black suburbs such as flossmoor, olympia fields, matteson, south holland, country club hills, richton park, etc. I am all for diversity, but it really does take two sides for diversity to work.
It really does two to tango as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426
Orland is southland capital in the retail and resturants department. So for me, that is a reason I would choose to live there. With this new project of an outlet mall maybe coming to Country Club Hills, it might put the village on the map and give people a reason to choose CCH.
I hope that the recent plans for more development may bring some diversity for CCH. I really do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx
People tend to f;ee from things they don't understand. When is the last time you had a block party with music and food and invited all the neighbtors? Maybe this is how you begin the dialogue?
I do not know of any block parties, but I personally have barbecued and invited neighbors over and of course made it clear I am not a threat to them, and I am very friendly, and care for the neighborhood as much as they do! Heck, I even shovel THEIR snow!
Is is quite evident that in this area, most whites don't really prefer to live in towns where they are the minority
But most whites in this area, the south suburbs, do live in towns where they are the minority. And even the few south suburbs that are majority white like Monee, Crete and Steger border majority black towns.
Are you saying most whites in the south suburbs don't like where they live? How do you know this? Have you done a survey? A survey of whites who don't live here anymore doesn't count.
Are you saying most whites in the south suburbs don't like where they live? How do you know this? Have you done a survey? A survey of whites who don't live here anymore doesn't count.
I've heard this before. I really do wonder where people get this information from?
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Story telling time!
